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This, this, this. So many people who are not well versed in advertising (the art, not the tech) simply launch a bare minimum campaign, for some reason expect gr

This, this, this. So many people who are not well versed in advertising (the art, not the tech) simply launch a bare minimum campaign, for some reason expect great returns, then blame the tool. It's completely illogical. There are many components to an ad campaign, from targeting to what's being advertised to creative to copy (and the thousands of variations within each) to ad type...and so on.

DailyHN 7y ago
Great returns? My only expectations is being able to believe real people are actually clicking the ads. Which I don't.
- 55555 7y ago
  You realize the prices you pay per click or impression are set by a market, right? The crux of the problem is that other people are just better at advertising than you are. There's a lot of fraud but I'm tired of people on HN who are terrible at advertising saying that "ads don't work." It's like saying "code doesn't work". It's just nonsense. What is your website/landing page URL and what did your ad say?
  - DailyHN 7y ago
    Maybe more focus should be on the fraud instead of the people who are wondering if ads are worth pursuing because of having to set aside a part of their budget to that fraud. And considering the pervasiveness of tracking, why isn't the fraud better tracked?
    - bunderbunder 7y ago
      > why isn't the fraud better tracked? Because the people who are best-positioned to do something about click fraud also make heaps of money off of click fraud. For example, browser extensions like AdNauseam that randomly "click" on ad links are maybe meant to be a middle finger aimed at the ad networks, but, realistically, if you, the person doing the advertising, are paying for clicks, then the main effect of such extensions is to transfer money from your pocket to the ad network's.
    - 55555 7y ago
      The ad networks don't seem to want to reduce fraud much. Possibly mostly because reducing fraud comes at the expense of denying real users, and the eventually-CPA-adjusted auction model means that the fraud should just be "factored into the price" and in that sense it's not a problem, and so they'd rather not deny 10 fraud clicks if it means accidentally elimininating 1 real click. But whatever the reason, they mostly view it as an issue advertisers should deal with. On the advertiser side, fraud has a small impact due to idiot brands bidding up prices and also another small impact due to the fact that you need to cull all the worst placements/domains when you first start using a network or launch a campaign. On the publisher side, each fraud penny earned is a penny directly taken away from legitimate publishers. Fraud is much more a problem for publishers than for advertisers.
  - navigatesol 7y ago
    >You realize the prices you pay per click or impression are set by a market, right? >There's a lot of fraud Makes no sense. Everytime AdTech comes up on HN, there's inevitably people who defend advertising with "you're not doing it right". Sorry, but the industry is a cesspool.
    - 55555 7y ago
      I'm saying each fake click brings no value and so advertisers lower their bids because at the end of the day they are looking at sales generated and bots dont buy. Professional performance-based advertisers don't really mind the fraud in the market, because it doesn't affect them any more than it affects any other advertiser, and it's a competition to convert best. In fact if you're better at detecting fraud placements, for example, it can actually be your edge over others.

DailyHN 7y ago

Great returns? My only expectations is being able to believe real people are actually clicking the ads. Which I don't.

55555 7y ago
You realize the prices you pay per click or impression are set by a market, right? The crux of the problem is that other people are just better at advertising than you are. There's a lot of fraud but I'm tired of people on HN who are terrible at advertising saying that "ads don't work." It's like saying "code doesn't work". It's just nonsense. What is your website/landing page URL and what did your ad say?
- DailyHN 7y ago
  Maybe more focus should be on the fraud instead of the people who are wondering if ads are worth pursuing because of having to set aside a part of their budget to that fraud. And considering the pervasiveness of tracking, why isn't the fraud better tracked?
  - bunderbunder 7y ago
    > why isn't the fraud better tracked? Because the people who are best-positioned to do something about click fraud also make heaps of money off of click fraud. For example, browser extensions like AdNauseam that randomly "click" on ad links are maybe meant to be a middle finger aimed at the ad networks, but, realistically, if you, the person doing the advertising, are paying for clicks, then the main effect of such extensions is to transfer money from your pocket to the ad network's.
  - 55555 7y ago
    The ad networks don't seem to want to reduce fraud much. Possibly mostly because reducing fraud comes at the expense of denying real users, and the eventually-CPA-adjusted auction model means that the fraud should just be "factored into the price" and in that sense it's not a problem, and so they'd rather not deny 10 fraud clicks if it means accidentally elimininating 1 real click. But whatever the reason, they mostly view it as an issue advertisers should deal with. On the advertiser side, fraud has a small impact due to idiot brands bidding up prices and also another small impact due to the fact that you need to cull all the worst placements/domains when you first start using a network or launch a campaign. On the publisher side, each fraud penny earned is a penny directly taken away from legitimate publishers. Fraud is much more a problem for publishers than for advertisers.
- navigatesol 7y ago
  >You realize the prices you pay per click or impression are set by a market, right? >There's a lot of fraud Makes no sense. Everytime AdTech comes up on HN, there's inevitably people who defend advertising with "you're not doing it right". Sorry, but the industry is a cesspool.
  - 55555 7y ago
    I'm saying each fake click brings no value and so advertisers lower their bids because at the end of the day they are looking at sales generated and bots dont buy. Professional performance-based advertisers don't really mind the fraud in the market, because it doesn't affect them any more than it affects any other advertiser, and it's a competition to convert best. In fact if you're better at detecting fraud placements, for example, it can actually be your edge over others.