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Yeah, it sucks for advertisers, too. From another active thread concerning the ad industry: > Using Google retargeting ads, less than 5% of desktop traffic go

Yeah, it sucks for advertisers, too. From another active thread concerning the ad industry: > Using Google retargeting ads, less than 5% of desktop traffic goes on to click anywhere on my website. And it's worse for mobile than on desktops. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20124231 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20124231

omarchowdhury 7y ago
You mean it sucks for you. How can you speak for all advertisers, especially based on a sample size of 200 clicks? You have to diagnose what could be off on your end before making extreme blanket statements. These ad systems are tools, and tools only work as well as how you use them.
- DailyHN 7y ago
  I find it hard to believe that 97.5% of people can click a link to a website and not even accidentally click something on that website. I'm not referring to real conversions, where yes, skills in marketing and using the tools does make all the difference. All I'm saying is that I paid for 200 clicks that appear to not even have real people clicking anywhere at all.
  - omarchowdhury 7y ago
    No doubt, there is fraud in the system. If you want to be successful in using these ad platforms for your business, you will have to accept that as a fact of life. What you need to do is to exclude bad placements/websites from your campaign. But even before that, you have to see if your ads + landing page are compelling, or you'll just waste a ton of money.
    - navigatesol 7y ago
      >But even before that, you have to see if your ads + landing page are compelling, or you'll just waste a ton of money. And how do you determine that, ex ante?
      - omarchowdhury 7y ago
        This part is more art than science, and requires being objective about the subjective, and what I mean by that is: being honest about what you're offering and if it's actually valuable to your prospects, and then seeing if how you're presenting your offer is simultaneously clear and breaks through the noise. At the end of the day we're still talking about sales, just in a new form, in a multi-dimensional bazaar called the Internet.
  - bduerst 7y ago
    Only you know how you set up your ads. Did you use the right keyword targeting? Location settings? Is your ad copy relevant to what you're actually selling or even to your website? Does your website have clear CTAs and copy? What is considered your conversion goal? Are you advertising in a popular market? Have you tried optimized with A/B testing for any of the above?
    - DailyHN 7y ago
      Retargeting + content keyword + location targeting. That is, people that have visited my site in the past(with separate ad groups to test "expanded audiences"), currently visiting another site with the target keywords, from a targeted location. And ads are generic branding and go to the homepage. Conversion goal: simply clicking anything at all.
      - bduerst 7y ago
        Is your goal brand awareness or actual conversions (i.e. selling something or form fills)? It sounds like you're trying to do both.
      - cameronbrown 7y ago
        If they've visited before, why will they come again without a reason? Your ad has to actually convince them to do something beyond read the same thing twice.
  - kps 7y ago
    > I find it hard to believe that 97.5% of people can click a link to a website and not even accidentally click something on that website. Depends on the type of site. If I follow a link to read something, I'll probably read it and leave. If the site tries to make me click something, I'll probably just leave.
- username444 7y ago
  Exactly this. Are you retargeting someone immediately after they purchased? Before their purchase even arrived? Is it a good targeting list? We have 3 buckets of customers, based on historical buying cycle: 0-30, 31-60, 61-90. We run retargeting within their purchase cycle, which is friendly and relevant. Customers get churned out of retargeting if not within their buying cycle, which saves us money, and saves them irritation.
- DisruptiveDave 7y ago
  This, this, this. So many people who are not well versed in advertising (the art, not the tech) simply launch a bare minimum campaign, for some reason expect great returns, then blame the tool. It's completely illogical. There are many components to an ad campaign, from targeting to what's being advertised to creative to copy (and the thousands of variations within each) to ad type...and so on.
  - DailyHN 7y ago
    Great returns? My only expectations is being able to believe real people are actually clicking the ads. Which I don't.
    - 55555 7y ago
      You realize the prices you pay per click or impression are set by a market, right? The crux of the problem is that other people are just better at advertising than you are. There's a lot of fraud but I'm tired of people on HN who are terrible at advertising saying that "ads don't work." It's like saying "code doesn't work". It's just nonsense. What is your website/landing page URL and what did your ad say?
      - DailyHN 7y ago
        Maybe more focus should be on the fraud instead of the people who are wondering if ads are worth pursuing because of having to set aside a part of their budget to that fraud. And considering the pervasiveness of tracking, why isn't the fraud better tracked?
        bunderbunder 7y ago
        > why isn't the fraud better tracked? Because the people who are best-positioned to do something about click fraud also make heaps of money off of click fraud. For example, browser extensions like AdNauseam that randomly "click" on ad links are maybe meant to be a middle finger aimed at the ad networks, but, realistically, if you, the person doing the advertising, are paying for clicks, then the main effect of such extensions is to transfer money from your pocket to the ad network's.
elorant 7y ago
5% ain't bad. Depending on site content ctr could be as low as 0,5%. Rates have been dropping for ages.
- DailyHN 7y ago
  That's 5% of clicks I paid for, resulting in any click on the website.
  - bunderbunder 7y ago
    It doesn't really surprise me at all. Virtually 100% of my clicks on ads are accidental - either the touchpad registered a tap when I didn't intend it, or, in the ever-increasing case of ads moving around on the page, because the ad popped in front of what I actually intended to click on. To tell the truth, the ads may be working, insofar as sometimes I will go to find out more based on an ad. But you won't see it in your click-through rates. I'll get to your website by opening a new tab and searching in DDG, because at this point I'm so annoyed by adtech and all their scumminess that I'm not willing to give them any additional data if I can possibly avoid it.

omarchowdhury 7y ago

You mean it sucks for you. How can you speak for all advertisers, especially based on a sample size of 200 clicks? You have to diagnose what could be off on your end before making extreme blanket statements. These ad systems are tools, and tools only work as well as how you use them.

DailyHN 7y ago
I find it hard to believe that 97.5% of people can click a link to a website and not even accidentally click something on that website. I'm not referring to real conversions, where yes, skills in marketing and using the tools does make all the difference. All I'm saying is that I paid for 200 clicks that appear to not even have real people clicking anywhere at all.
- omarchowdhury 7y ago
  No doubt, there is fraud in the system. If you want to be successful in using these ad platforms for your business, you will have to accept that as a fact of life. What you need to do is to exclude bad placements/websites from your campaign. But even before that, you have to see if your ads + landing page are compelling, or you'll just waste a ton of money.
  - navigatesol 7y ago
    >But even before that, you have to see if your ads + landing page are compelling, or you'll just waste a ton of money. And how do you determine that, ex ante?
    - omarchowdhury 7y ago
      This part is more art than science, and requires being objective about the subjective, and what I mean by that is: being honest about what you're offering and if it's actually valuable to your prospects, and then seeing if how you're presenting your offer is simultaneously clear and breaks through the noise. At the end of the day we're still talking about sales, just in a new form, in a multi-dimensional bazaar called the Internet.
- bduerst 7y ago
  Only you know how you set up your ads. Did you use the right keyword targeting? Location settings? Is your ad copy relevant to what you're actually selling or even to your website? Does your website have clear CTAs and copy? What is considered your conversion goal? Are you advertising in a popular market? Have you tried optimized with A/B testing for any of the above?
  - DailyHN 7y ago
    Retargeting + content keyword + location targeting. That is, people that have visited my site in the past(with separate ad groups to test "expanded audiences"), currently visiting another site with the target keywords, from a targeted location. And ads are generic branding and go to the homepage. Conversion goal: simply clicking anything at all.
    - bduerst 7y ago
      Is your goal brand awareness or actual conversions (i.e. selling something or form fills)? It sounds like you're trying to do both.
    - cameronbrown 7y ago
      If they've visited before, why will they come again without a reason? Your ad has to actually convince them to do something beyond read the same thing twice.
- kps 7y ago
  > I find it hard to believe that 97.5% of people can click a link to a website and not even accidentally click something on that website. Depends on the type of site. If I follow a link to read something, I'll probably read it and leave. If the site tries to make me click something, I'll probably just leave.
username444 7y ago
Exactly this. Are you retargeting someone immediately after they purchased? Before their purchase even arrived? Is it a good targeting list? We have 3 buckets of customers, based on historical buying cycle: 0-30, 31-60, 61-90. We run retargeting within their purchase cycle, which is friendly and relevant. Customers get churned out of retargeting if not within their buying cycle, which saves us money, and saves them irritation.
DisruptiveDave 7y ago
This, this, this. So many people who are not well versed in advertising (the art, not the tech) simply launch a bare minimum campaign, for some reason expect great returns, then blame the tool. It's completely illogical. There are many components to an ad campaign, from targeting to what's being advertised to creative to copy (and the thousands of variations within each) to ad type...and so on.
- DailyHN 7y ago
  Great returns? My only expectations is being able to believe real people are actually clicking the ads. Which I don't.
  - 55555 7y ago
    You realize the prices you pay per click or impression are set by a market, right? The crux of the problem is that other people are just better at advertising than you are. There's a lot of fraud but I'm tired of people on HN who are terrible at advertising saying that "ads don't work." It's like saying "code doesn't work". It's just nonsense. What is your website/landing page URL and what did your ad say?
    - DailyHN 7y ago
      Maybe more focus should be on the fraud instead of the people who are wondering if ads are worth pursuing because of having to set aside a part of their budget to that fraud. And considering the pervasiveness of tracking, why isn't the fraud better tracked?
      - bunderbunder 7y ago
        > why isn't the fraud better tracked? Because the people who are best-positioned to do something about click fraud also make heaps of money off of click fraud. For example, browser extensions like AdNauseam that randomly "click" on ad links are maybe meant to be a middle finger aimed at the ad networks, but, realistically, if you, the person doing the advertising, are paying for clicks, then the main effect of such extensions is to transfer money from your pocket to the ad network's.

elorant 7y ago

5% ain't bad. Depending on site content ctr could be as low as 0,5%. Rates have been dropping for ages.

DailyHN 7y ago
That's 5% of clicks I paid for, resulting in any click on the website.
- bunderbunder 7y ago
  It doesn't really surprise me at all. Virtually 100% of my clicks on ads are accidental - either the touchpad registered a tap when I didn't intend it, or, in the ever-increasing case of ads moving around on the page, because the ad popped in front of what I actually intended to click on. To tell the truth, the ads may be working, insofar as sometimes I will go to find out more based on an ad. But you won't see it in your click-through rates. I'll get to your website by opening a new tab and searching in DDG, because at this point I'm so annoyed by adtech and all their scumminess that I'm not willing to give them any additional data if I can possibly avoid it.