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> calling someone a fanboy is not an argument I do not think having called anyone Musk fanboy, but you seem to have been hurt or felt concerned wierdly :) I d

by adev_ 7y ago

> calling someone a fanboy is not an argument I do not think having called anyone Musk fanboy, but you seem to have been hurt or felt concerned wierdly :) I did say that Musk hates the idea of Hydrogen car, and that might not be only for technical reasons. > compressed hydrogen is extremely dangerous Lithium battery is also well known dangerous. Dangerous enough that they are now banned into airplanes > Hydrogen cars already require a battery. False claim, supercapacitor on the long term can very likely do the job as a "buffer" after the fuel cell. And they are cheap to produce. Supercapacitor that "battery-eletric" car also need for their "fast 30min charge" btw.

schiffern 7y ago
> I do not think having called anyone Musk fanboy, but you seem to have been hurt or felt concerned wierdly :) You offered that the only reason they opposed fuel cells was due to "Elon Musk propaganda." The message was crystal clear even if the word "fanboy" itself was not used. :p > I did say that Musk hates the idea of Hydrogen car, and that might not be only for technical reasons. Maybe so, but the technical reasons alone suffice. The biggest problem is that hydrogen is a zero-carbon bait and switch. Hydrogen from water costs 2-3x as much as hydrogen from cracking natural gas, for fundamental thermodynamic reasons. Also fuel cells are no more than 50% efficient, because physics. This means the theoretically best possible hydrogen fuel cell car has worse well-to-wheel or panel-to-wheel efficiency than today's existing electric cars. Ouch. > False claim, supercapacitor on the long term can very likely do the job as a "buffer" after the fuel cell. And they are cheap to produce. Supercapacitor that "battery-eletric" car also need for their "fast 30min charge" btw. Where to begin? - The size and mass of supercapacitors makes this a non-starter. Seriously do the math, it's quite bad. - Supercaps are not cheaper than batteries per kWh. Quite the opposite. - Supercaps are not needed for 30 minute charging. Tesla cars achieve this already without supercaps. - Adding supercaps to EVs wouldn't make the battery charge faster anyway (other than quickly charging the small buffer). To get a lot of benefit you'd need to replace the entire battery with supercaps, and again that's not realistic. Hydrogen cars were dead long before Elon Musk weighed in.
- clouddrover 7y ago
  > The size and mass of supercapacitors makes this a non-starter. No, you just need the right ultra-capacitors. Like Nawa's: https://newatlas.com/nawa-technologies-carbon-ultra-capacitor/54972/ https://newatlas.com/nawa-technologies-carbon-ultra-capacito... https://newatlas.com/nawa-nanotube-ultracapacitor-production/59684/ https://newatlas.com/nawa-nanotube-ultracapacitor-production... I hope Formula E adopts Nawa's ultra-capacitors. It will make the cars better. The big benefits will be a lighter battery pack and stronger recuperation in braking.

by adev_ 7y ago

schiffern 7y ago

> I do not think having called anyone Musk fanboy, but you seem to have been hurt or felt concerned wierdly :) You offered that the only reason they opposed fuel cells was due to "Elon Musk propaganda." The message was crystal clear even if the word "fanboy" itself was not used. :p > I did say that Musk hates the idea of Hydrogen car, and that might not be only for technical reasons. Maybe so, but the technical reasons alone suffice. The biggest problem is that hydrogen is a zero-carbon bait and switch. Hydrogen from water costs 2-3x as much as hydrogen from cracking natural gas, for fundamental thermodynamic reasons. Also fuel cells are no more than 50% efficient, because physics. This means the theoretically best possible hydrogen fuel cell car has worse well-to-wheel or panel-to-wheel efficiency than today's existing electric cars. Ouch. > False claim, supercapacitor on the long term can very likely do the job as a "buffer" after the fuel cell. And they are cheap to produce. Supercapacitor that "battery-eletric" car also need for their "fast 30min charge" btw. Where to begin? - The size and mass of supercapacitors makes this a non-starter. Seriously do the math, it's quite bad. - Supercaps are not cheaper than batteries per kWh. Quite the opposite. - Supercaps are not needed for 30 minute charging. Tesla cars achieve this already without supercaps. - Adding supercaps to EVs wouldn't make the battery charge faster anyway (other than quickly charging the small buffer). To get a lot of benefit you'd need to replace the entire battery with supercaps, and again that's not realistic. Hydrogen cars were dead long before Elon Musk weighed in.

clouddrover 7y ago
> The size and mass of supercapacitors makes this a non-starter. No, you just need the right ultra-capacitors. Like Nawa's: https://newatlas.com/nawa-technologies-carbon-ultra-capacitor/54972/ https://newatlas.com/nawa-technologies-carbon-ultra-capacito... https://newatlas.com/nawa-nanotube-ultracapacitor-production/59684/ https://newatlas.com/nawa-nanotube-ultracapacitor-production... I hope Formula E adopts Nawa's ultra-capacitors. It will make the cars better. The big benefits will be a lighter battery pack and stronger recuperation in braking.