4 ms·

the bloat, the UI look & feel, ...?

by lispm 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
arethuza 7y ago
I have MS Teams and VS Code, both Electron apps, open and they seem perfectly OK to me - in fact I am surprised by how little memory they use.
- coldtea 7y ago
  That's because Electron has conditioned you to enormous waste of memory, and cpu, bigger latencies, and so on. The "[surprising] little memory they use" is huge for what they do.
  - arethuza 7y ago
    Well, Teams is using less memory than Skype for Business that I also have running and compared to Visual Studio and multiple browsers windows I have open they are hardly using anything. Edit: Yes, I think Electron/nodejs are "bloated" too if I look in node_modules - but once I stopped worrying about that I got over the whole "bloated" perception.
    - basch 7y ago
      Ive never had the experience of teams feeling like it was performing well or felt fast. It's probably the laggiest apps in the Office suite.
      - hadrien01 7y ago
        You've never experienced Skype for Business, it's awfully slow when doing simple things (resizing the window, opening a new conversation, sending a message, etc.)
        basch 7y ago
        oh i have. im not saying skype was better, but parts of its UI were absolutely more responsive. it wasnt slow scrolling up the conversation to see what someone said 10 minutes ago. try scrolling up a teams conversation to find a recent message.
- lispm 7y ago
  I have a directory open and edit a 260 line file. roughly 750MB RAM...
  - arethuza 7y ago
    People used to fret about emacs being "Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping" I'm running all this stuff on a beefy desktop - I don't really care if it takes 200MB RAM to open a file as VC Code has lots of features I really like.
    - LeoNatan25 7y ago
      That's a narrow view point. You as a developer have a "beefy" desktop. What about your users? Most people in the world don't have "beefy" desktops. These days, 2GB and 4GB machines are still the norm.
      - arethuza 7y ago
        I don't expect end users to have VS Code or VS Studio and things are tested in end-user appropriate environments? I don't see what development tools and target environments have to do with each other - 'bloat' in the latter does not necessarily mean bloat in the deliverable? Edit: I've worked with people in my career who complained about 'bloat' in C (vs assember), C++ (vs C), Unix, Emacs (vs vi), Java (vs C++) Complaining about the latest round of tools being bloated is just what a subset of the developer community does at any moment in time (and this is not necessarily a bad thing).
        LeoNatan25 7y ago
        But developers do expect them to run the crapware that they "develop", such as Slack, Spotify, etc., which are often worse than VSCode. Neither should be acceptable. > I've worked with people in my career who complained about 'bloat' in C (vs assember), C++ (vs C), Unix, Emacs (vs vi), Java (vs C++) That's a big hyperbole.
    - lispm 7y ago

the bloat, the UI look & feel, ...?

by lispm 7y ago

the bloat, the UI look & feel, ...?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

arethuza 7y ago

I have MS Teams and VS Code, both Electron apps, open and they seem perfectly OK to me - in fact I am surprised by how little memory they use.

coldtea 7y ago
That's because Electron has conditioned you to enormous waste of memory, and cpu, bigger latencies, and so on. The "[surprising] little memory they use" is huge for what they do.
- arethuza 7y ago
  Well, Teams is using less memory than Skype for Business that I also have running and compared to Visual Studio and multiple browsers windows I have open they are hardly using anything. Edit: Yes, I think Electron/nodejs are "bloated" too if I look in node_modules - but once I stopped worrying about that I got over the whole "bloated" perception.
  - basch 7y ago
    Ive never had the experience of teams feeling like it was performing well or felt fast. It's probably the laggiest apps in the Office suite.
    - hadrien01 7y ago
      You've never experienced Skype for Business, it's awfully slow when doing simple things (resizing the window, opening a new conversation, sending a message, etc.)
      - basch 7y ago
        oh i have. im not saying skype was better, but parts of its UI were absolutely more responsive. it wasnt slow scrolling up the conversation to see what someone said 10 minutes ago. try scrolling up a teams conversation to find a recent message.
lispm 7y ago
I have a directory open and edit a 260 line file. roughly 750MB RAM...
- arethuza 7y ago
  People used to fret about emacs being "Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping" I'm running all this stuff on a beefy desktop - I don't really care if it takes 200MB RAM to open a file as VC Code has lots of features I really like.
  - LeoNatan25 7y ago
    That's a narrow view point. You as a developer have a "beefy" desktop. What about your users? Most people in the world don't have "beefy" desktops. These days, 2GB and 4GB machines are still the norm.
    - arethuza 7y ago
      I don't expect end users to have VS Code or VS Studio and things are tested in end-user appropriate environments? I don't see what development tools and target environments have to do with each other - 'bloat' in the latter does not necessarily mean bloat in the deliverable? Edit: I've worked with people in my career who complained about 'bloat' in C (vs assember), C++ (vs C), Unix, Emacs (vs vi), Java (vs C++) Complaining about the latest round of tools being bloated is just what a subset of the developer community does at any moment in time (and this is not necessarily a bad thing).
      - LeoNatan25 7y ago
        But developers do expect them to run the crapware that they "develop", such as Slack, Spotify, etc., which are often worse than VSCode. Neither should be acceptable. > I've worked with people in my career who complained about 'bloat' in C (vs assember), C++ (vs C), Unix, Emacs (vs vi), Java (vs C++) That's a big hyperbole.
  - lispm 7y ago