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Precisely why I’m a big fan of tariffs and America-first foreign policy. We need a way to restore manufacturing industry to the US, the loss of which played a

Precisely why I’m a big fan of tariffs and America-first foreign policy. We need a way to restore manufacturing industry to the US, the loss of which played a large role in the erosion of the middle class. Protecting manufacturing and factory jobs used to be a selling point for Democrats but things have been a little turned upside down lately.

komali2 7y ago
If only tariffs caused manufacturing facilities to return to the USA. They don't, though. Here's a great map of the net negative effects tariffs have on the state of your choosing: https://www.uschamber.com/tariffs https://www.uschamber.com/tariffs
- dev_dull 7y ago
  I realize that tariffs are controversial given the current political climate, but they really are one of the best ways to claw back money from large corporations and reward unskilled labor in the US. We need to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US. The loss of those jobs disproportionately affected minorities. Increases in corporate tax is easily avoided by domicile changes. Tariffs are a simple way to restore balance. Build it here. Hire here. No tariffs.
  - chiefalchemist 7y ago
    Perhaps. But also keep in mind that in bringing back that manufacturing we'll be bringing back the ecological issues (read: pollution) as well. There's always an unintended consequence or two.
  - komali2 7y ago
    Do you have evidence to support your claim? I ask because in my experience this is one of those "sure, makes sense" situations (like "just build a wall!") that, when actually taken in the context of real world economics, doesn't work.
- howard941 7y ago
  There's something wrong with the data at that URL - the data, not the web site which is really attractive and responsive. The first two states checked out were funky. That there are $659M of wireless phone exports from Calif to China doesn't pass the smell test. It's an incredible claim requiring incredible proof but there's nothing there despite the state being colored in as suffering Extremely Significant Damage. Another state, Florida, gets off more easily and only suffers Very Significant Damage. Drilling down it turns out the goods being tariffed aren't good at all: The tariffed items are literally scrap gold jewelry and scrap metals. California's stealthy cellphone export I'm pretty sure don't exist. I'd argue that Florida's scrap exports are resources better kept in country as feedstock to help spur on-shore manufacturing. I'm going out on a limb and expect the remaining 48 states are showing tariffs on bulk minerals, ag products, trash, and make-believe products. Tariffs on these items are positives insofar as they keep input costs low for domestic producers.
joshgel 7y ago
This is just incorrect. A 25% tariff doesn't correct for the difference in labor costs between China and the USA, because the difference in labor costs is > 25%. It just makes stuff more expensive for Americans.
- dev_dull 7y ago
  I don’t think that’s true, besides, couldn’t the same argument be said about raising the corporate income tax? Yet many people are in favor of that. Tarrifs directly benefit American workers and factories, who find their prices 20% more competitive.
- internet_user 7y ago
  It is more difficult to evade tariffs or VAT on imports, sure. For that to even out the playing field, it would have to be refunded to average Americans, and I am not sure it can even happen given the fiscal structure in the US? Maybe a patchwork of all sorts of federal programs, better Medicare here, some more govt jobs there, etc? A direct refund would probably work much better.
  - brewdad 7y ago
    Fix the Health Care mess and we'll call it even.

komali2 7y ago

If only tariffs caused manufacturing facilities to return to the USA. They don't, though. Here's a great map of the net negative effects tariffs have on the state of your choosing: https://www.uschamber.com/tariffs https://www.uschamber.com/tariffs

dev_dull 7y ago
I realize that tariffs are controversial given the current political climate, but they really are one of the best ways to claw back money from large corporations and reward unskilled labor in the US. We need to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US. The loss of those jobs disproportionately affected minorities. Increases in corporate tax is easily avoided by domicile changes. Tariffs are a simple way to restore balance. Build it here. Hire here. No tariffs.
- chiefalchemist 7y ago
  Perhaps. But also keep in mind that in bringing back that manufacturing we'll be bringing back the ecological issues (read: pollution) as well. There's always an unintended consequence or two.
- komali2 7y ago
  Do you have evidence to support your claim? I ask because in my experience this is one of those "sure, makes sense" situations (like "just build a wall!") that, when actually taken in the context of real world economics, doesn't work.
howard941 7y ago
There's something wrong with the data at that URL - the data, not the web site which is really attractive and responsive. The first two states checked out were funky. That there are $659M of wireless phone exports from Calif to China doesn't pass the smell test. It's an incredible claim requiring incredible proof but there's nothing there despite the state being colored in as suffering Extremely Significant Damage. Another state, Florida, gets off more easily and only suffers Very Significant Damage. Drilling down it turns out the goods being tariffed aren't good at all: The tariffed items are literally scrap gold jewelry and scrap metals. California's stealthy cellphone export I'm pretty sure don't exist. I'd argue that Florida's scrap exports are resources better kept in country as feedstock to help spur on-shore manufacturing. I'm going out on a limb and expect the remaining 48 states are showing tariffs on bulk minerals, ag products, trash, and make-believe products. Tariffs on these items are positives insofar as they keep input costs low for domestic producers.

joshgel 7y ago

This is just incorrect. A 25% tariff doesn't correct for the difference in labor costs between China and the USA, because the difference in labor costs is > 25%. It just makes stuff more expensive for Americans.

dev_dull 7y ago
I don’t think that’s true, besides, couldn’t the same argument be said about raising the corporate income tax? Yet many people are in favor of that. Tarrifs directly benefit American workers and factories, who find their prices 20% more competitive.
internet_user 7y ago
It is more difficult to evade tariffs or VAT on imports, sure. For that to even out the playing field, it would have to be refunded to average Americans, and I am not sure it can even happen given the fiscal structure in the US? Maybe a patchwork of all sorts of federal programs, better Medicare here, some more govt jobs there, etc? A direct refund would probably work much better.
- brewdad 7y ago
  Fix the Health Care mess and we'll call it even.