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Plato and many American states agree: A women of 16 is old enough to get married, have kids Plato would even add the "and do well at both". That is advice fro

by tropo 7y ago

Plato and many American states agree: A women of 16 is old enough to get married, have kids Plato would even add the "and do well at both". That is advice from a famous philosopher. He thought 16 was ideal for women, and 30 was ideal for men. I have no idea if he might have had a personal bias in that matter.

tschwimmer 7y ago
Luckily for us, neither of these are particularly good modern moral authorities.
- graycat 7y ago
  While I place no trust in Plato's reasoning or evidence, I don't see the issue as "moral". Instead, I see the importance of good family formation, which the US is failing at (birth rate so low we are rapidly going extinct, literally -- the most basic failing of a society), and needing solutions good in all or nearly all respects. Failing at family formation is no darned good and worse -- it canNOT last. On this point f'get about Plato, Fromm, or me and, instead, listen to Darwin -- yup, he's on the case.
nonwifehaver3 7y ago
The American states' laws from 100+ years ago are completely at odds with current culture. So unless you are in a radically traditional and very insular religious subculture, marrying before 21 is probably going to be a disaster. This whole "women of 16 are fit to reproduce" thing is not constant in time. Not only is there the cultural factor, the physical age of puberty varies radically across environments and ethnicities. For example, home environment (presence of biological father) affects age of menarche in women. And in 18th century England many girls didn't start puberty until they were over 20 years old. And west of the Hajnal line, England included, has had consistently higher marriage and childbearing ages for centuries. Menarche age has been plummeting in developed countries for 60+ years, but since it's partly from pollutants it probably isn't correct to assume that means they should have children earlier. It indeed feels unsavory to talk about human beings like this, but the point is that it isn't correct to generalize about what is "ideal".

by tropo 7y ago

tschwimmer 7y ago

Luckily for us, neither of these are particularly good modern moral authorities.

graycat 7y ago
While I place no trust in Plato's reasoning or evidence, I don't see the issue as "moral". Instead, I see the importance of good family formation, which the US is failing at (birth rate so low we are rapidly going extinct, literally -- the most basic failing of a society), and needing solutions good in all or nearly all respects. Failing at family formation is no darned good and worse -- it canNOT last. On this point f'get about Plato, Fromm, or me and, instead, listen to Darwin -- yup, he's on the case.

nonwifehaver3 7y ago

The American states' laws from 100+ years ago are completely at odds with current culture. So unless you are in a radically traditional and very insular religious subculture, marrying before 21 is probably going to be a disaster. This whole "women of 16 are fit to reproduce" thing is not constant in time. Not only is there the cultural factor, the physical age of puberty varies radically across environments and ethnicities. For example, home environment (presence of biological father) affects age of menarche in women. And in 18th century England many girls didn't start puberty until they were over 20 years old. And west of the Hajnal line, England included, has had consistently higher marriage and childbearing ages for centuries. Menarche age has been plummeting in developed countries for 60+ years, but since it's partly from pollutants it probably isn't correct to assume that means they should have children earlier. It indeed feels unsavory to talk about human beings like this, but the point is that it isn't correct to generalize about what is "ideal".