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> My point is not that they require a lot of work. My point is that they have a massive impact on climate change. You could spend your entire life flying to con

by ardy42 7y ago

> My point is not that they require a lot of work. My point is that they have a massive impact on climate change. You could spend your entire life flying to conferences, living on a cruise ship, dumping trash in the ocean, and none of it would even hold a candle to the environmental impact of having a child. Your argument applies equally to "having a child" and "letting some person live."

jniedrauer 7y ago
That's a pretty big jump. In one case, I create a human where one does not currently exist. In the other case, I choose to impose my will on a human that currently exists and has a will of their own.
- ardy42 7y ago
  > That's a pretty big jump. It's not as big of a jump as you think. If climate change is such an urgent issue that anti-natalism should be on the agenda, perhaps it's a big enough crisis to motivate a re-evaluation of some old ideas about the sanctity of individual human lives.
  - AlexandrB 7y ago
    This is like the bartender telling you that "maybe you've had enough" and, instead of just not drinking anymore, you immediately calling an ambulance to take you to the hospital and get your stomach pumped. Seems like all-or-nothing thinking to me.
  - iamnothere 7y ago
    > perhaps it's a big enough crisis to motivate a re-evaluation of some old ideas about the sanctity of individual human lives You say this flippantly, but if we don't eventually reverse the trends, this will happen. It will be camouflaged in the garb of warfare against the "enemy", as it always is.
paulmd 7y ago
You're delusional if you think climate change isn't going to play out without human deaths on a massive scale, regardless of whether that's wars for habitable land and water or explicit murders of "surplus" populations. We're on a path that is going to significantly lessen the carrying capacity of the planet (on the human timescales we care about). It's implicit and unavoidable barring a wholescale change in power structures and probably human attitudes in general. It's not a good thing but it is inevitable at this point.
- tracker1 7y ago
  So you want war? War is the way scarce resources tends to be managed at scale...

by ardy42 7y ago

jniedrauer 7y ago

That's a pretty big jump. In one case, I create a human where one does not currently exist. In the other case, I choose to impose my will on a human that currently exists and has a will of their own.

ardy42 7y ago
> That's a pretty big jump. It's not as big of a jump as you think. If climate change is such an urgent issue that anti-natalism should be on the agenda, perhaps it's a big enough crisis to motivate a re-evaluation of some old ideas about the sanctity of individual human lives.
- AlexandrB 7y ago
  This is like the bartender telling you that "maybe you've had enough" and, instead of just not drinking anymore, you immediately calling an ambulance to take you to the hospital and get your stomach pumped. Seems like all-or-nothing thinking to me.
- iamnothere 7y ago
  > perhaps it's a big enough crisis to motivate a re-evaluation of some old ideas about the sanctity of individual human lives You say this flippantly, but if we don't eventually reverse the trends, this will happen. It will be camouflaged in the garb of warfare against the "enemy", as it always is.

paulmd 7y ago

You're delusional if you think climate change isn't going to play out without human deaths on a massive scale, regardless of whether that's wars for habitable land and water or explicit murders of "surplus" populations. We're on a path that is going to significantly lessen the carrying capacity of the planet (on the human timescales we care about). It's implicit and unavoidable barring a wholescale change in power structures and probably human attitudes in general. It's not a good thing but it is inevitable at this point.

tracker1 7y ago
So you want war? War is the way scarce resources tends to be managed at scale...