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A lot of people have kids _for themselves_. There are a lot of other endeavours one can pursue that will bring happiness. I think where we fail as a society, is

A lot of people have kids _for themselves_. There are a lot of other endeavours one can pursue that will bring happiness. I think where we fail as a society, is in teaching ourselves how to find those pursuits, surround ourselves with friends, and avoid loneliness. > The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 Hrm, I question the circle of people you're surrounded by. Many millennials are struggling to afford the basics, let alone travel or have a family! This is a contentious and potentially unpopular opinion, but I posit that having children borders on unethical at this point in history. We've wrecked the planet and have growing anti-intellectual culture. I'm happy you're happy though.

curious_fella1 7y ago
edit: That seems a little extreme and defeatist IMO.
maneshi 7y ago
And whose tax money will be looking after you in your old age, when you have no family of your own to take care of you? The children of those ‘unethical’ people you tediously condescend so proudly up on your high horse.
- AlexandrB 7y ago
  And whose tax money is paying for the schools that are educating those children at the moment? Oh right... This is a really bad argument. Especially in countries that have a lot more support for parents than the US.
  - maneshi 7y ago
    Yes, exactly. Isn’t that precisely the point? Paying it forward, so in turn we will be supported when we reach old age?
hindsightbias 7y ago
> and have growing anti-intellectual culture. From this thread, it would appear to be baked-in as a function of self-selection. One might argue intellectuals have an obligation to procreate.
- AlexandrB 7y ago
  > One might argue intellectuals have an obligation to procreate. They already did and their kids are building the world's largest and most powerful surveillance and propaganda systems at Facebook and Google. Unfortunately the "G" in FAANG does not stand for "Greenpeace".
- tsbertalan 7y ago
  I think that intelligence is much more environmentally driven rather than genetic, though I don't have any proper references for that. I would argue that, in a properly functioning society, intellectualism, assuming it's strongly tied to wealth, wouldn't really be heritable beyond one generation. Combating anti-intellectualism as a trend is probably more complicated than just trying to get the existing educated to have more children then the existing uneducated.
  - evidenceoraxiom 7y ago
    > I think that intelligence is much more environmentally driven rather than genetic, though I don't have any proper references for that. Long time lurker, but since you look like you could use a good source I made an account. Here[0] is a well-referenced Wikipedia page, so that you can base your understanding on fact in the future (something we all should aim for if we want to know the truth). The key quote from the article intro is > The heritability of IQ for adults is between 57% and 73%[6] with some more-recent estimates as high as 80%[7] and 86%.[8] IQ goes from being weakly correlated with genetics, for children, to being strongly correlated with genetics for late teens and adults. This means that opportunity for intelligence is very heritable, like height. Sad for those of us who hoped we were blank slates with equal chances of success in the information age. My personal take away is that the world always has been brutal, so "fear thy creator", and get your act together with the few IQ points you were given. I hope all the different people of our planet with can succeed in creating prosperous societies despite this, like westerners and east Asians have today. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ
tasty_freeze 7y ago
Adopt a child. They will have an environmental impact whether you adopt them or not; presumably you will provide them a better life than an orphanage, and you can experience the joys and pains of parenthood.

curious_fella1 7y ago

edit: That seems a little extreme and defeatist IMO.

maneshi 7y ago

And whose tax money will be looking after you in your old age, when you have no family of your own to take care of you? The children of those ‘unethical’ people you tediously condescend so proudly up on your high horse.

AlexandrB 7y ago
And whose tax money is paying for the schools that are educating those children at the moment? Oh right... This is a really bad argument. Especially in countries that have a lot more support for parents than the US.
- maneshi 7y ago
  Yes, exactly. Isn’t that precisely the point? Paying it forward, so in turn we will be supported when we reach old age?

hindsightbias 7y ago

> and have growing anti-intellectual culture. From this thread, it would appear to be baked-in as a function of self-selection. One might argue intellectuals have an obligation to procreate.

AlexandrB 7y ago
> One might argue intellectuals have an obligation to procreate. They already did and their kids are building the world's largest and most powerful surveillance and propaganda systems at Facebook and Google. Unfortunately the "G" in FAANG does not stand for "Greenpeace".
tsbertalan 7y ago
I think that intelligence is much more environmentally driven rather than genetic, though I don't have any proper references for that. I would argue that, in a properly functioning society, intellectualism, assuming it's strongly tied to wealth, wouldn't really be heritable beyond one generation. Combating anti-intellectualism as a trend is probably more complicated than just trying to get the existing educated to have more children then the existing uneducated.
- evidenceoraxiom 7y ago
  > I think that intelligence is much more environmentally driven rather than genetic, though I don't have any proper references for that. Long time lurker, but since you look like you could use a good source I made an account. Here[0] is a well-referenced Wikipedia page, so that you can base your understanding on fact in the future (something we all should aim for if we want to know the truth). The key quote from the article intro is > The heritability of IQ for adults is between 57% and 73%[6] with some more-recent estimates as high as 80%[7] and 86%.[8] IQ goes from being weakly correlated with genetics, for children, to being strongly correlated with genetics for late teens and adults. This means that opportunity for intelligence is very heritable, like height. Sad for those of us who hoped we were blank slates with equal chances of success in the information age. My personal take away is that the world always has been brutal, so "fear thy creator", and get your act together with the few IQ points you were given. I hope all the different people of our planet with can succeed in creating prosperous societies despite this, like westerners and east Asians have today. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

tasty_freeze 7y ago

Adopt a child. They will have an environmental impact whether you adopt them or not; presumably you will provide them a better life than an orphanage, and you can experience the joys and pains of parenthood.