5 ms·

I heard someone describe this as the "capstone" vs "conerstone" model. Previous generations got married and had kids much earlier, and built their lives off of

I heard someone describe this as the "capstone" vs "conerstone" model. Previous generations got married and had kids much earlier, and built their lives off of that cornerstone. When it comes to me personally and my peers, we see marriage and children more as a capstone -- something to be done once our student loan is paid, or when we're ready to put a down payment on a house, when we get that promotion, etc.

sdegutis 7y ago
I know two sisters who each got married. The older one practiced worldly prudence, courted during high school, got engaged at beginning of college, and waited almost a decade until after her fiancé graduated before they got married and started to have children. But now he can't get a job with his degree (pharmacist), she works at some retail job as a manager, and the whole family lives with her parents. He's in >$100,000 debt and briefly went to a medical facility during a nervous breakdown after realizing he realistically can't pay it back. The younger sister had no such ambitions. Courted in high school, got engaged, married right out of high school, immediately started a family, he works at Walmart making higher than average money, and she stays at home raising the kids. They also live with her parents in the same house. True stories. This all happened over the past 7 years. I would say the prudence of the second couple vastly outshines the "prudence" of the first couple.
- sgslo 7y ago
  I'm not sure your story proves a whole lot. By the way you phrase it, the outcome of the older sister hinged upon the husband failing to get a job as a pharmacist. If he had successfully landed a job, the outcome of your story would be very different. The same argument could be made for the younger sister. What happens when Walmart downsizes, and the husband is out of job with a background only in retail? I'm not sure it is worth citing or criticizing the 'prudence' of either couple.
  - rhizome 7y ago
    Plus, I'm under the impression that "can't get a job as a pharmacist" is a rare problem.
  - sdegutis 7y ago
    The first couple waited almost a decade to start having a family, and accrued $100k in debt. The second couple had a family immediately, have no debt, and are otherwise in the exact same situation as the first couple. And the couple that had children sooner, are younger and more energetic, and also have less stressful jobs that allow them to spend more time and better quality time with them. Also there is a real value in having the mom stay at home full time where she can teach their children their own values and guard them from bad practices or influences at such an impressionable age.
- ambicapter 7y ago
  Wow, neither of these examples are at all appetizing as an example of a life well lived!
  - mmsimanga 7y ago
    I am not sure how you come to that conclusion without knowing more details. What if the couples truly love each other and enjoy each other's company. What if they share looking after children thus having time for themselves and each other. There might be people who have good jobs are able to travel but hate their jobs, are lonely and don't like their spouse.
- irrational 7y ago
  How is living at home with your parents an example of prudence?
- segmondy 7y ago
  Where is this? There's no where in the US where you can't get a job as a pharmacist. No where. Retails are needed very much so, you have to stand and it pays really freaking well, except it's hard to cross over into other types. Again, in the USA, in any state in this country, working full time, at the very worse, you will make $90k/yr as a pharmacist.
  - refurb 7y ago
    It's changed. Check out r/pharmacy. Getting a PharmD used to be a golden ticket. Then a ton of schools opened up and flooded the market. Wages are actually on the way down and from what I've heard, the retail jobs really suck.
- astura 7y ago
  There's either something you don't know or aren't telling us. There has to be a specific reason why someone who holds a Doctor of Pharmacy would be unable to get a job.
merpnderp 7y ago
I'm still in awe that starting off your life with massive student loans is a thing. This is almost always a very poor decision as there are tons of cheap regional schools where a part time job can mostly get you through school with very little debt. And yet we've got a generation of new adults starting life under crushing debt that purchased them something of dubious value (an expensive degree versus a cheap one). My regional university had a decent CS program and tuition was $3k/year.
- crooked-v 7y ago
  As it turns out, if you ask children with little to no experience living independently and managing money to do something predicated on living independently and managing money, they make poor decisions.
- impendia 7y ago
  > tons of cheap regional schools Where? I teach at the University of South Carolina, where tuition and fees are over $10K a year. To my knowledge, the same is true of all the other four-year colleges in the state (Clemson, College of Charleston, Lander, USC Upstate, The Citadel etc.) Not as outrageous as private school tuition, but it's still a very substantial burden, especially when you factor in food and housing as well. My impression is that this is quite typical for the US. I would be delighted to learn that I am mistaken.
  - paulmd 7y ago
    The "one weird trick to graduate on the cheap! colleges hate him!" of choice these days is community college. Have fun trying to get your credits to transfer. I had trouble getting credits to transfer from the Air Force Academy to a state college. They want you to do them there. They would take them as generic credit hours but it was an uphill battle to get them to actually satisfy graduation requirements (which are the real thing that keeps you from graduating, you will already have enough credit hours).
    - lunchables 7y ago
DisruptiveDave 7y ago
Got married at 38, first kid coming at 40. Had nothing to do with debts and all that other stuff; I chose to live out my wild years to full satisfaction and natural completion.
- kevinofe 7y ago
  First and only kid at 41 for me, no looking back. Keep disrupting, dad!
- bob33212 7y ago
  Full completion sounds sexual. Was that intentional?
  - DisruptiveDave 7y ago
    Partially!

sdegutis 7y ago

I know two sisters who each got married. The older one practiced worldly prudence, courted during high school, got engaged at beginning of college, and waited almost a decade until after her fiancé graduated before they got married and started to have children. But now he can't get a job with his degree (pharmacist), she works at some retail job as a manager, and the whole family lives with her parents. He's in >$100,000 debt and briefly went to a medical facility during a nervous breakdown after realizing he realistically can't pay it back. The younger sister had no such ambitions. Courted in high school, got engaged, married right out of high school, immediately started a family, he works at Walmart making higher than average money, and she stays at home raising the kids. They also live with her parents in the same house. True stories. This all happened over the past 7 years. I would say the prudence of the second couple vastly outshines the "prudence" of the first couple.

sgslo 7y ago
I'm not sure your story proves a whole lot. By the way you phrase it, the outcome of the older sister hinged upon the husband failing to get a job as a pharmacist. If he had successfully landed a job, the outcome of your story would be very different. The same argument could be made for the younger sister. What happens when Walmart downsizes, and the husband is out of job with a background only in retail? I'm not sure it is worth citing or criticizing the 'prudence' of either couple.
- rhizome 7y ago
  Plus, I'm under the impression that "can't get a job as a pharmacist" is a rare problem.
- sdegutis 7y ago
  The first couple waited almost a decade to start having a family, and accrued $100k in debt. The second couple had a family immediately, have no debt, and are otherwise in the exact same situation as the first couple. And the couple that had children sooner, are younger and more energetic, and also have less stressful jobs that allow them to spend more time and better quality time with them. Also there is a real value in having the mom stay at home full time where she can teach their children their own values and guard them from bad practices or influences at such an impressionable age.
ambicapter 7y ago
Wow, neither of these examples are at all appetizing as an example of a life well lived!
- mmsimanga 7y ago
  I am not sure how you come to that conclusion without knowing more details. What if the couples truly love each other and enjoy each other's company. What if they share looking after children thus having time for themselves and each other. There might be people who have good jobs are able to travel but hate their jobs, are lonely and don't like their spouse.
irrational 7y ago
How is living at home with your parents an example of prudence?
segmondy 7y ago
Where is this? There's no where in the US where you can't get a job as a pharmacist. No where. Retails are needed very much so, you have to stand and it pays really freaking well, except it's hard to cross over into other types. Again, in the USA, in any state in this country, working full time, at the very worse, you will make $90k/yr as a pharmacist.
- refurb 7y ago
  It's changed. Check out r/pharmacy. Getting a PharmD used to be a golden ticket. Then a ton of schools opened up and flooded the market. Wages are actually on the way down and from what I've heard, the retail jobs really suck.
astura 7y ago
There's either something you don't know or aren't telling us. There has to be a specific reason why someone who holds a Doctor of Pharmacy would be unable to get a job.

merpnderp 7y ago

I'm still in awe that starting off your life with massive student loans is a thing. This is almost always a very poor decision as there are tons of cheap regional schools where a part time job can mostly get you through school with very little debt. And yet we've got a generation of new adults starting life under crushing debt that purchased them something of dubious value (an expensive degree versus a cheap one). My regional university had a decent CS program and tuition was $3k/year.

crooked-v 7y ago
As it turns out, if you ask children with little to no experience living independently and managing money to do something predicated on living independently and managing money, they make poor decisions.
impendia 7y ago
> tons of cheap regional schools Where? I teach at the University of South Carolina, where tuition and fees are over $10K a year. To my knowledge, the same is true of all the other four-year colleges in the state (Clemson, College of Charleston, Lander, USC Upstate, The Citadel etc.) Not as outrageous as private school tuition, but it's still a very substantial burden, especially when you factor in food and housing as well. My impression is that this is quite typical for the US. I would be delighted to learn that I am mistaken.
- paulmd 7y ago
  The "one weird trick to graduate on the cheap! colleges hate him!" of choice these days is community college. Have fun trying to get your credits to transfer. I had trouble getting credits to transfer from the Air Force Academy to a state college. They want you to do them there. They would take them as generic credit hours but it was an uphill battle to get them to actually satisfy graduation requirements (which are the real thing that keeps you from graduating, you will already have enough credit hours).
  - lunchables 7y ago

DisruptiveDave 7y ago

Got married at 38, first kid coming at 40. Had nothing to do with debts and all that other stuff; I chose to live out my wild years to full satisfaction and natural completion.

kevinofe 7y ago
First and only kid at 41 for me, no looking back. Keep disrupting, dad!
bob33212 7y ago
Full completion sounds sexual. Was that intentional?
- DisruptiveDave 7y ago
  Partially!