7 ms·

Whatever it is today, I fear the future will be much worse. The most devastating existential consequences of loneliness can take decades to manifest. You feel

by nugget 7y ago

Whatever it is today, I fear the future will be much worse. The most devastating existential consequences of loneliness can take decades to manifest. You feel a little lonely in your day to day life now, but wake up twenty years from now and realize you're socially isolated with no meaningful relationships or community and it's "too late" to make up the lost time. Most dangerous of all may be that online social networks provide participants with the feeling of deep social and community engagement that turns out to be a surface-level mirage beneath which we were just each staring at ourselves in the mirror the entire time.

gnopgnip 7y ago
Lookup steven pinker. The short of it is even if there are certain things that seem like a big problem, overall right now is the greatest time to be alive in human history, and in 10 years, or 20 years, or 30 years the same is likely to be true.
decasia 7y ago
I agree with your first point — like other structural problems, loneliness adds up over time. But on the second point, I'm really not sure that online social networks are just a "surface-level mirage." I met my spouse online, and many of my closest friendships have developed online, by instant message, etc. I don't think the alternative to "online communication" is necessarily that we will all socialize in person. If we got rid of the internet and instead (just for a random example) we were all alone in our houses reading books by ourselves, I think that would be a step back.
- nugget 7y ago
  Yes on the second point, I think there's likely a distribution - perhaps 20% of participants use it as a helpful tool and 80% use it as a harmful crutch. I don't know what the actual ratio would be, but anecdotally I know quite a few young people in the latter group for whom many casual relationships seem to have replaced fewer serious ones.
- durnygbur 7y ago
  The opposite over here. Met less than a dozen at most of people exclusively through various online interactions. Use various online media and platforms only to sustain existing relationships and even this not always works. Dating and social networking applications from the FB platform are so full of attention absorbing people, inflencers, and similar that I have quit these long time ago.
  - actuator 7y ago
    Can't agree more with this. Social media apps kind of force people to post(show off) about their lives constantly; with people feeling the need to broadcast even trivial things in their life like a morning coffee. Things like stories makes it even worse as people viewing/commenting on stories gives you that dopamine fix throughout the day and you crave for more of the same by constantly posting. I like the idea of these platforms for content creators like photographers, athletes etc. but overall I see a lot more negative than positive for common users. Online dating apps are the worst and I even found myself getting sucked into the whole attention thing. I quit it when I realized a lot of women I was talking to/went on dates, was just to get the ego boost. It was very unhealthy for me and definitely not fair for the other person.
- apatters 7y ago
  I think the key is how social networks are used. You notably met your spouse online, which means at some point things presumably transitioned to an offline relationship which can't be terminated just by hitting a block button. Online networks can be great ways to meet new people, but there's ample evidence which suggests that having a purely digital social life is bad for mental health. If we look at Tinder, there was a study of millennial users a while back which found that about 70% of them had never met anyone through it and didn't intend to. Moreover Tinder has economic incentives to keep you on their platform, swiping, texting, paying subscription fees, and viewing ads, all things you stop doing when you meet people and enter into a committed relationship. Most social networks unfortunately follow this model; they have monetary incentives to keep you as engaged as possible in their all digital, all the time lifestyle, rather than unplugging and physically sharing space with other humans. Healthier business models can certainly be imagined and maybe they'll even be implemented someday, but they aren't prevalent right now.
losteric 7y ago
Have you heard about transgenerational stress inheritance? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_stress_inheritance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_stress_inher... We are also still learning about the gut-brain axis. The human microbiome is inheritable, and many modern practices (infant formula, C-sections, antibiotics, processed foods) having detrimental effects. What's worse is humans seem to have an instinctive trend of self-isolation in the face of psychological distress, which worsens the condition. Add the inevitable downstream effects of climate change (economic uncertainty if not another world war)... and, yeah, it's bleak.
a3n 7y ago
> Whatever it is today, I fear the future will be much worse. People sleeping in their car at the airport to make their current gig(s) possible in the gig economy are already living in the future. Especially now that Uber has a STFU option. And not all gigs involve face to face clients.
rco8786 7y ago
> Whatever it is today, I fear the future will be much worse. This is an easy trap for humans to fall into. "The sky is falling" type stuff. Humans have faced lots of problems over the millenia, but the reality is that our lives continue to improve as a whole..not get worse.
- rubicon33 7y ago
  Wouldn't it be ironic if the reason they continue to improve, is because of our fear that it won't? A little fear, and skepticism of the future, is a good thing.
- ionised 7y ago
  > but the reality is that our lives continue to improve as a whole..not get worse. This is true for some, not others.
  - rco8786 7y ago
    "as a whole"
- tachyonbeam 7y ago
  On the other hand, we're now facing situations that we've never faced before, both as a species and as individuals. Increasingly, we're moving towards a future where you will never need to leave your home or interact with anyone. Netflix, and Amazon deliveries. Self-driving cars. Kids will eventually get their education online. Virtual reality is under active development. Then there's AI, and sex robots. Why bother with a real boyfriend/girlfriend when you can talk to your phone and have an artificial companion? Real humans have their own wants and needs and may not do what you want. Worse, they might leave you. Your robot girlfriend on the other hand, you could have endless conversations with her in which she tells you exactly what you want to hear and never challenges you. That's far-fetched, you say. In the near term, I tried Tinder and it's pretty addictive. An endless stream of new people I can meet. Most of them want nothing serious though. They don't even want to sleep with you more than once or twice for the most part. It's all about novelty-seeking. It seems to me like increasingly few people want a sustained relationship. Breakups hurt, so let's never risk having one, a constant stream of lovers is emotionally safer in a way, I suppose, but I can tell you it definitely leaves me feeling lonely.
soulofmischief 7y ago
Suicide rates have skyrocketed for middle-aged white men in the US. They are now the highest statistic. [0] It's happening already. • Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the US. • The age-adjusted suicide rate in 2017 was 14.0 per 100,000 individuals. • In 2017, men died by suicide 3.54x more often than women. • White males accounted for 69.67% of suicide deaths in 2017. [0] https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/ https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/
- 55555 7y ago
  > men died by suicide 3.54x more often than women That's a very interesting statistic considering women attempt suicide 1.2x more than men.
  - ionised 7y ago
    I read once that women tend to do it for attention; like a cry for help in ways likely to fail such as pills, wrist cuts etc. Men to do it to end their own existence and choose things like hanging, gunshot, jumping off a bridge etc.
  - akiselev 7y ago
    Men tend to use firearms more often when attempting suicide whereas women tend to use medication more often. The latter is easier to treat and ambulances are better equipped for overdoses than gunshots.
    - belorn 7y ago
      Firearms is one possible explanation. An other is that women get treatment more than men, particularly for depression. Treatment greatly reduce the risk of completed suicide. There is a large uncomfortable area within suicide data. In a study, about half who attempt suicide said it was a cry for help. While we can't ask those that die, we do have data that say that those people usually have both a history of suicide attempts and a lack of treatment for it. This combination has a gendered aspect. So it can be firearms, the culture around treatment, both, or other aspects which explains why men die by suicide 3.54x more often than women while at the same time women attempt suicide 1.2x more than men. I think the best action to reduce suicide is with the medical profession. Treatment of drug and alcohol addiction, depression, and those who have attempted suicide in the past. We can try to reduce the number of firearms and adding barriers on bridges and subway platforms, but I have my doubts that areas which implement such action actually see a reduction in completed suicides. At best it gives the health care system a bit more time to provide treatment.

by nugget 7y ago

gnopgnip 7y ago

Lookup steven pinker. The short of it is even if there are certain things that seem like a big problem, overall right now is the greatest time to be alive in human history, and in 10 years, or 20 years, or 30 years the same is likely to be true.

decasia 7y ago

I agree with your first point — like other structural problems, loneliness adds up over time. But on the second point, I'm really not sure that online social networks are just a "surface-level mirage." I met my spouse online, and many of my closest friendships have developed online, by instant message, etc. I don't think the alternative to "online communication" is necessarily that we will all socialize in person. If we got rid of the internet and instead (just for a random example) we were all alone in our houses reading books by ourselves, I think that would be a step back.

nugget 7y ago
Yes on the second point, I think there's likely a distribution - perhaps 20% of participants use it as a helpful tool and 80% use it as a harmful crutch. I don't know what the actual ratio would be, but anecdotally I know quite a few young people in the latter group for whom many casual relationships seem to have replaced fewer serious ones.
durnygbur 7y ago
The opposite over here. Met less than a dozen at most of people exclusively through various online interactions. Use various online media and platforms only to sustain existing relationships and even this not always works. Dating and social networking applications from the FB platform are so full of attention absorbing people, inflencers, and similar that I have quit these long time ago.
- actuator 7y ago
  Can't agree more with this. Social media apps kind of force people to post(show off) about their lives constantly; with people feeling the need to broadcast even trivial things in their life like a morning coffee. Things like stories makes it even worse as people viewing/commenting on stories gives you that dopamine fix throughout the day and you crave for more of the same by constantly posting. I like the idea of these platforms for content creators like photographers, athletes etc. but overall I see a lot more negative than positive for common users. Online dating apps are the worst and I even found myself getting sucked into the whole attention thing. I quit it when I realized a lot of women I was talking to/went on dates, was just to get the ego boost. It was very unhealthy for me and definitely not fair for the other person.
apatters 7y ago
I think the key is how social networks are used. You notably met your spouse online, which means at some point things presumably transitioned to an offline relationship which can't be terminated just by hitting a block button. Online networks can be great ways to meet new people, but there's ample evidence which suggests that having a purely digital social life is bad for mental health. If we look at Tinder, there was a study of millennial users a while back which found that about 70% of them had never met anyone through it and didn't intend to. Moreover Tinder has economic incentives to keep you on their platform, swiping, texting, paying subscription fees, and viewing ads, all things you stop doing when you meet people and enter into a committed relationship. Most social networks unfortunately follow this model; they have monetary incentives to keep you as engaged as possible in their all digital, all the time lifestyle, rather than unplugging and physically sharing space with other humans. Healthier business models can certainly be imagined and maybe they'll even be implemented someday, but they aren't prevalent right now.

losteric 7y ago

Have you heard about transgenerational stress inheritance? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_stress_inheritance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_stress_inher... We are also still learning about the gut-brain axis. The human microbiome is inheritable, and many modern practices (infant formula, C-sections, antibiotics, processed foods) having detrimental effects. What's worse is humans seem to have an instinctive trend of self-isolation in the face of psychological distress, which worsens the condition. Add the inevitable downstream effects of climate change (economic uncertainty if not another world war)... and, yeah, it's bleak.

a3n 7y ago

> Whatever it is today, I fear the future will be much worse. People sleeping in their car at the airport to make their current gig(s) possible in the gig economy are already living in the future. Especially now that Uber has a STFU option. And not all gigs involve face to face clients.

rco8786 7y ago

> Whatever it is today, I fear the future will be much worse. This is an easy trap for humans to fall into. "The sky is falling" type stuff. Humans have faced lots of problems over the millenia, but the reality is that our lives continue to improve as a whole..not get worse.

rubicon33 7y ago
Wouldn't it be ironic if the reason they continue to improve, is because of our fear that it won't? A little fear, and skepticism of the future, is a good thing.
ionised 7y ago
> but the reality is that our lives continue to improve as a whole..not get worse. This is true for some, not others.
- rco8786 7y ago
  "as a whole"
tachyonbeam 7y ago
On the other hand, we're now facing situations that we've never faced before, both as a species and as individuals. Increasingly, we're moving towards a future where you will never need to leave your home or interact with anyone. Netflix, and Amazon deliveries. Self-driving cars. Kids will eventually get their education online. Virtual reality is under active development. Then there's AI, and sex robots. Why bother with a real boyfriend/girlfriend when you can talk to your phone and have an artificial companion? Real humans have their own wants and needs and may not do what you want. Worse, they might leave you. Your robot girlfriend on the other hand, you could have endless conversations with her in which she tells you exactly what you want to hear and never challenges you. That's far-fetched, you say. In the near term, I tried Tinder and it's pretty addictive. An endless stream of new people I can meet. Most of them want nothing serious though. They don't even want to sleep with you more than once or twice for the most part. It's all about novelty-seeking. It seems to me like increasingly few people want a sustained relationship. Breakups hurt, so let's never risk having one, a constant stream of lovers is emotionally safer in a way, I suppose, but I can tell you it definitely leaves me feeling lonely.

soulofmischief 7y ago

Suicide rates have skyrocketed for middle-aged white men in the US. They are now the highest statistic. [0] It's happening already. • Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the US. • The age-adjusted suicide rate in 2017 was 14.0 per 100,000 individuals. • In 2017, men died by suicide 3.54x more often than women. • White males accounted for 69.67% of suicide deaths in 2017. [0] https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/ https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

55555 7y ago
> men died by suicide 3.54x more often than women That's a very interesting statistic considering women attempt suicide 1.2x more than men.
- ionised 7y ago
  I read once that women tend to do it for attention; like a cry for help in ways likely to fail such as pills, wrist cuts etc. Men to do it to end their own existence and choose things like hanging, gunshot, jumping off a bridge etc.
- akiselev 7y ago
  Men tend to use firearms more often when attempting suicide whereas women tend to use medication more often. The latter is easier to treat and ambulances are better equipped for overdoses than gunshots.
  - belorn 7y ago
    Firearms is one possible explanation. An other is that women get treatment more than men, particularly for depression. Treatment greatly reduce the risk of completed suicide. There is a large uncomfortable area within suicide data. In a study, about half who attempt suicide said it was a cry for help. While we can't ask those that die, we do have data that say that those people usually have both a history of suicide attempts and a lack of treatment for it. This combination has a gendered aspect. So it can be firearms, the culture around treatment, both, or other aspects which explains why men die by suicide 3.54x more often than women while at the same time women attempt suicide 1.2x more than men. I think the best action to reduce suicide is with the medical profession. Treatment of drug and alcohol addiction, depression, and those who have attempted suicide in the past. We can try to reduce the number of firearms and adding barriers on bridges and subway platforms, but I have my doubts that areas which implement such action actually see a reduction in completed suicides. At best it gives the health care system a bit more time to provide treatment.