5 ms·

Meh. Not educated enough to tell if this is FUD but sure seems like it. As if the US pharma industry has not been caught countless times hiding data and making

Meh. Not educated enough to tell if this is FUD but sure seems like it. As if the US pharma industry has not been caught countless times hiding data and making patients sick. "They just don't make it in that India or China or whatever like they can here" comes off as incredibly racist imo.

mruts 7y ago
I’ve taken and still take quite a few psychoactive drugs and have clearly noticed a lack of quality control and potency in generic drugs. I wouldn’t say they are poison, but in my experience they often don’t work as well. One of the best examples is amphetamines. Name brand Adderall and Dexedrine are significantly more potent than the generic alternatives I’ve tried. Maybe this has to do with the binders, or maybe there is less amphetamines in it, I don’t know. As an anecdote, my dad works as a pharma regulator for the FDA and never takes generic medication. He’s told me that generics are inadequately regulated to ensure equivalency to the original.
- EdwardDiego 7y ago
  Apologies if I don't take your drug taking anecdotes as any kind of fact. If you knew that they were generics beforehand, and had preconceived beliefs about generics, your subjective experience of their recreational aspects is severely flawed.
  - dRaBoQ 7y ago
    The book provides details with FDA reports, court and patient cases why these are not anecdotes...
    - EdwardDiego 7y ago
      In America, yeah? As in, your regulators might be shit, but other countries might be better. The FDA have hardly been covering themselves in glory.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - mruts 7y ago
    I’m prescribed them and have been taking some form of anphetamine for over 10 years. If it matters, I remember discovering this because I ended up taking a lot more because I wasn’t feeling them. Only afterwards did I notice they weren’t namebrand.
  - ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
    Anecdotes in general are useless but the Adderall example is not just a single person's anecdote. It's an extremely common experience that almost everyone who takes the medication deals with. Many of the patients are kids who don't really understand what the difference between generic or name brand pills even is, so its hard to attribute the difference to their beliefs. Many pediatric doctors try to start treatment with generics and then move to the name brand as an alternative to increasing dosage.
- stallmanite 7y ago
  Just another anecdote for the pile but I’ve had the same experience with generic Adderall being significantly less potent. After a decade+ on the generic my insurance company switched me to brand name and it was utterly shocking how different it was. I had previously belived that generics were literally identical and figured I was experiencing a placebo effect. To try to understand what was going on I recapped 7 generics and 7 brand name pills so that I couldn’t identify which was which and had my wife give me one at random each day for 14 days with her keeping track of which was given when. After 14 days I had 100% accuracy identifying the generic vs brand name. Not good.
gvb 7y ago
China has a long and very bad history of adulterated food and drugs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_safety_incidents_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_safety_incidents_in_China
AdmiralAsshat 7y ago
If all countries had the same level of regulations and quality control, maybe. But look to the issue like tilapia farming, and there are very valid reasons to be weary of tilapia that is sourced from China.[0][1][2] The farmers feed those fish with manure rather than fish feed in order to cut costs: >At Chen Qiang’s tilapia farm in Yangjiang city in China’s Guangdong province, which borders Hong Kong, Chen feeds fish partly with feces from hundreds of pigs and geese. That practice is dangerous for American consumers, says Michael Doyle, director of the University of Georgia’s Center for Food Safety. >“The manure the Chinese use to feed fish is frequently contaminated with microbes like salmonella,” says Doyle, who has studied foodborne diseases in China. So no, I don't instinctively think it's "racist" to be concerned that drugs and other materials imported from previously third-world countries might not be exactly what they say they are. We're not importing them because of their quality, we're importing them because they're cheaper. It's a race to the bottom, and anyone trying to reach the bottom is likely to take shortcuts. --- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-10-11/asian-seafood-raised-on-pig-feces-approved-for-u-s-consumers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-10-11/asian-sea... https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tilapia-consumption/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tilapia-consumption/ http://web.archive.org/web/20130308100945/http://@ers.usda.gov/media/156008/eib52_1_.pdf http://web.archive.org/web/20130308100945/http://@ers.usda.g...
- EdwardDiego 7y ago
  If inferior drugs are being imported into your country, that raises big questions about your regulator. I think it's inarguable that generics have offered live-saving medication to millions, if not billions, around the world, much to the disgust of the pharmaceutical companies who would prefer a captive market like they've stitched up in the US.
  - pstrateman 7y ago
    It's significantly harder to test than it is to control the process used to create the drugs. The idea that the FDA can test every batch of every drug imported is ridiculous, they can however implement strict controls for the production of the drug.... but not abroad.
EdwardDiego 7y ago
Your thoughts mirror my thoughts perfectly - it may not be FUD but it sure comes off like FUD. I scrolled down to find the author's credentials and... > David Dobbs is the author of “My Mother’s Lover,” a memoir of his mother’s long-secret wartime affair. Oh, okay, clearly well versed on pharmaceuticals.
- cardiffspaceman 7y ago
  I think it is valid skepticism to at least wonder if the publication forgot to include a more relevant credential.
elliekelly 7y ago
Agreed, compounding pharmacies[1] in the U.S. operate with the same regulatory oversight described in the article - almost none. That lack of over oversight was at last partially responsible for the NECC meningitis outbreak[2] a few years ago. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compounding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compounding [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Compounding_Center_meningitis_outbreak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Compounding_Center...

mruts 7y ago

I’ve taken and still take quite a few psychoactive drugs and have clearly noticed a lack of quality control and potency in generic drugs. I wouldn’t say they are poison, but in my experience they often don’t work as well. One of the best examples is amphetamines. Name brand Adderall and Dexedrine are significantly more potent than the generic alternatives I’ve tried. Maybe this has to do with the binders, or maybe there is less amphetamines in it, I don’t know. As an anecdote, my dad works as a pharma regulator for the FDA and never takes generic medication. He’s told me that generics are inadequately regulated to ensure equivalency to the original.

EdwardDiego 7y ago
Apologies if I don't take your drug taking anecdotes as any kind of fact. If you knew that they were generics beforehand, and had preconceived beliefs about generics, your subjective experience of their recreational aspects is severely flawed.
- dRaBoQ 7y ago
  The book provides details with FDA reports, court and patient cases why these are not anecdotes...
  - EdwardDiego 7y ago
    In America, yeah? As in, your regulators might be shit, but other countries might be better. The FDA have hardly been covering themselves in glory.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- mruts 7y ago
  I’m prescribed them and have been taking some form of anphetamine for over 10 years. If it matters, I remember discovering this because I ended up taking a lot more because I wasn’t feeling them. Only afterwards did I notice they weren’t namebrand.
- ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
  Anecdotes in general are useless but the Adderall example is not just a single person's anecdote. It's an extremely common experience that almost everyone who takes the medication deals with. Many of the patients are kids who don't really understand what the difference between generic or name brand pills even is, so its hard to attribute the difference to their beliefs. Many pediatric doctors try to start treatment with generics and then move to the name brand as an alternative to increasing dosage.
stallmanite 7y ago
Just another anecdote for the pile but I’ve had the same experience with generic Adderall being significantly less potent. After a decade+ on the generic my insurance company switched me to brand name and it was utterly shocking how different it was. I had previously belived that generics were literally identical and figured I was experiencing a placebo effect. To try to understand what was going on I recapped 7 generics and 7 brand name pills so that I couldn’t identify which was which and had my wife give me one at random each day for 14 days with her keeping track of which was given when. After 14 days I had 100% accuracy identifying the generic vs brand name. Not good.

gvb 7y ago

China has a long and very bad history of adulterated food and drugs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_safety_incidents_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_safety_incidents_in_China

AdmiralAsshat 7y ago

If all countries had the same level of regulations and quality control, maybe. But look to the issue like tilapia farming, and there are very valid reasons to be weary of tilapia that is sourced from China.[0][1][2] The farmers feed those fish with manure rather than fish feed in order to cut costs: >At Chen Qiang’s tilapia farm in Yangjiang city in China’s Guangdong province, which borders Hong Kong, Chen feeds fish partly with feces from hundreds of pigs and geese. That practice is dangerous for American consumers, says Michael Doyle, director of the University of Georgia’s Center for Food Safety. >“The manure the Chinese use to feed fish is frequently contaminated with microbes like salmonella,” says Doyle, who has studied foodborne diseases in China. So no, I don't instinctively think it's "racist" to be concerned that drugs and other materials imported from previously third-world countries might not be exactly what they say they are. We're not importing them because of their quality, we're importing them because they're cheaper. It's a race to the bottom, and anyone trying to reach the bottom is likely to take shortcuts. --- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-10-11/asian-seafood-raised-on-pig-feces-approved-for-u-s-consumers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-10-11/asian-sea... https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tilapia-consumption/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tilapia-consumption/ http://web.archive.org/web/20130308100945/http://@ers.usda.gov/media/156008/eib52_1_.pdf http://web.archive.org/web/20130308100945/http://@ers.usda.g...

EdwardDiego 7y ago
If inferior drugs are being imported into your country, that raises big questions about your regulator. I think it's inarguable that generics have offered live-saving medication to millions, if not billions, around the world, much to the disgust of the pharmaceutical companies who would prefer a captive market like they've stitched up in the US.
- pstrateman 7y ago
  It's significantly harder to test than it is to control the process used to create the drugs. The idea that the FDA can test every batch of every drug imported is ridiculous, they can however implement strict controls for the production of the drug.... but not abroad.

EdwardDiego 7y ago

Your thoughts mirror my thoughts perfectly - it may not be FUD but it sure comes off like FUD. I scrolled down to find the author's credentials and... > David Dobbs is the author of “My Mother’s Lover,” a memoir of his mother’s long-secret wartime affair. Oh, okay, clearly well versed on pharmaceuticals.

cardiffspaceman 7y ago
I think it is valid skepticism to at least wonder if the publication forgot to include a more relevant credential.

elliekelly 7y ago

Agreed, compounding pharmacies[1] in the U.S. operate with the same regulatory oversight described in the article - almost none. That lack of over oversight was at last partially responsible for the NECC meningitis outbreak[2] a few years ago. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compounding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compounding [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Compounding_Center_meningitis_outbreak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Compounding_Center...