5 ms·

Private transportation is fundamentally at odds with public transportation as far as I can tell; public transport campaigners just don't "get it". In cities wh

Private transportation is fundamentally at odds with public transportation as far as I can tell; public transport campaigners just don't "get it". In cities where public transportation is a huge success, it's because driving is completely impractical due to congestion. Even a first class compartment on a train is frankly uncomfortable compared to sitting in a car. An autonomous car or a chauffeured car beats it hands down, because public infrastructure is never going to be as clean or as luxurious as an individual can afford. I love public transport and I want it to do well because, well, it's ultimately the only thing that's going to scale. But it's just not acceptable to say "oh well the train is warm and smelly, deal with it". Unless it's a cause that really matters to them, most people who can afford it are going to opt out of that.

pathsjs 7y ago
Well, it seems to me that you don't get it. In the city where I live, car traffic is not especially impractical, and I drive from time to time. But if I have the chance to go somewhere by subway, I prefer that, since I can read or do seomthing else in the meantime. If I can walk, this is even better. For longer travels, a train is always better than a car for me: I can read, watch a movie, study. The time of arrival is known in advance unless there are delays and I can just relax. You seem to assume that everyone prefers to be in a car, but this is just not the case
- esotericn 7y ago
  I can't speak for 'everyone'. The thing I'm getting at here is not whether you, or I, personally drive or not. It's that public transport is built (necessarily) for the public. It's lowest common denominator. Very, very few systems worldwide are actually comfortable places to be. A car that has air conditioning, your own seat, space, etc is more comfortable than a tube carriage that's crammed to the rafters and is 30+c. A specific individual might prefer the cost/time/whatever tradeoff of one over the other. But to pretend that cars are just strictly inferior is only true in a situation where public transport actually works properly - which is really vanishingly rare. Even in a place like London with its' fantastic tube network, it's completely normal for people to stand armpit-to-armpit in a sweltering carriage. A car might be slower, but it provides an opt-out for that discomfort, and some people will choose that unless you literally ban it.
  - pathsjs 7y ago
    I think we agree. I am not sure of the percentages, but there are some people that prefer cars, others that prefer public transport, other that prefer bikes. The way you phrased your comment seemed to assume that car is a preference for everyone, which in my experience is not true (although of course it is for some people)
  - bostik 7y ago
    London is particularly bad, and one reason is the insane increase for demand in commuting capacity. I can't find the source, but in 2010 or so, there were about 250k people traveling to London daily for their work. (That figure was 350k in early 2013.) In 2019, there are something like 850k people doing the same. Even if the numbers were only vaguely there, that still means >200% increase in required commuting capacity in a decade. Don't know if any transport infrastructure could support that kind of expansion.
  - JAlexoid 7y ago
    You backpedalled from your earlier claim that a car is better than first class rail. It's demonstrably NOT. Considering your apparent location(England) - a car is the slow option.
- swat535 7y ago
  You clearly haven't taken public transportation at peak hours.. When even finding a single available seat is impossible. No one is able to enjoy their latte and "read", people are crammed together and have to keep moving further back to allow for others to join in. Have fun not missing your exit station..
TheCoelacanth 7y ago
> Even a first class compartment on a train is frankly uncomfortable compared to sitting in a car. I strongly disagree. On a train you can stand up, walk around, go to the bathroom, etc. and the ride is usually smoother than anything short of brand new shocks plus pristine road conditions.
- akvadrako 7y ago
  I wanted to say this too and to add that trains can be much faster. Even slow trains almost never get stuck in traffic.
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    In the US, Amtrak often gets "stuck in traffic", because freight trains have priority. I think a lot of people don't realize this and it contributes to the general opinion that Amtrak just sucks for no reason.
JAlexoid 7y ago
"Even a first class compartment on a train is frankly uncomfortable compared to sitting in a car." - So being able to stand up, walk about, have space* is not luxury to you? Could I get those knockout pills you take? * I have Jeep Cherokee and the space I get is less than first class rail.

pathsjs 7y ago

Well, it seems to me that you don't get it. In the city where I live, car traffic is not especially impractical, and I drive from time to time. But if I have the chance to go somewhere by subway, I prefer that, since I can read or do seomthing else in the meantime. If I can walk, this is even better. For longer travels, a train is always better than a car for me: I can read, watch a movie, study. The time of arrival is known in advance unless there are delays and I can just relax. You seem to assume that everyone prefers to be in a car, but this is just not the case

esotericn 7y ago
I can't speak for 'everyone'. The thing I'm getting at here is not whether you, or I, personally drive or not. It's that public transport is built (necessarily) for the public. It's lowest common denominator. Very, very few systems worldwide are actually comfortable places to be. A car that has air conditioning, your own seat, space, etc is more comfortable than a tube carriage that's crammed to the rafters and is 30+c. A specific individual might prefer the cost/time/whatever tradeoff of one over the other. But to pretend that cars are just strictly inferior is only true in a situation where public transport actually works properly - which is really vanishingly rare. Even in a place like London with its' fantastic tube network, it's completely normal for people to stand armpit-to-armpit in a sweltering carriage. A car might be slower, but it provides an opt-out for that discomfort, and some people will choose that unless you literally ban it.
- pathsjs 7y ago
  I think we agree. I am not sure of the percentages, but there are some people that prefer cars, others that prefer public transport, other that prefer bikes. The way you phrased your comment seemed to assume that car is a preference for everyone, which in my experience is not true (although of course it is for some people)
- bostik 7y ago
  London is particularly bad, and one reason is the insane increase for demand in commuting capacity. I can't find the source, but in 2010 or so, there were about 250k people traveling to London daily for their work. (That figure was 350k in early 2013.) In 2019, there are something like 850k people doing the same. Even if the numbers were only vaguely there, that still means >200% increase in required commuting capacity in a decade. Don't know if any transport infrastructure could support that kind of expansion.
- JAlexoid 7y ago
  You backpedalled from your earlier claim that a car is better than first class rail. It's demonstrably NOT. Considering your apparent location(England) - a car is the slow option.
swat535 7y ago
You clearly haven't taken public transportation at peak hours.. When even finding a single available seat is impossible. No one is able to enjoy their latte and "read", people are crammed together and have to keep moving further back to allow for others to join in. Have fun not missing your exit station..

TheCoelacanth 7y ago

> Even a first class compartment on a train is frankly uncomfortable compared to sitting in a car. I strongly disagree. On a train you can stand up, walk around, go to the bathroom, etc. and the ride is usually smoother than anything short of brand new shocks plus pristine road conditions.

akvadrako 7y ago
I wanted to say this too and to add that trains can be much faster. Even slow trains almost never get stuck in traffic.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  In the US, Amtrak often gets "stuck in traffic", because freight trains have priority. I think a lot of people don't realize this and it contributes to the general opinion that Amtrak just sucks for no reason.

JAlexoid 7y ago

"Even a first class compartment on a train is frankly uncomfortable compared to sitting in a car." - So being able to stand up, walk about, have space* is not luxury to you? Could I get those knockout pills you take? * I have Jeep Cherokee and the space I get is less than first class rail.