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As a Pole, I see the Soviet Union as badly as Germany. Sometimes when reading discussions, I think that some westerners forget that the Soviet Union assaulted

As a Pole, I see the Soviet Union as badly as Germany. Sometimes when reading discussions, I think that some westerners forget that the Soviet Union assaulted Poland 17 days after Germans attacked us. So to remind everyone, Soviets started the whole bloody Second World War! Not to mention, that after they crashed Poland they killed 22 000 Polish captives by shutting them in the back of their head in an effort to eradicate Polish culture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre Russians did not fully admit this crime until freaking 2010. These liars were either denying it or blaming this crime on Germans while they had documents clearly stating orders. They assaulted Poland in 1939, and they were assaulting us in 1944. They were waiting for Warsaw Uprising to fall, they were preventing western forces to help the uprising. Then they proceeded to effectively occupy Poland till 1989. Even today if we discuss historical events some Russians will tend to get upset that we are not grateful for the sacrifices of the Red Army. But they were not liberating us. They were raping, pillaging and brutally crashing anyone who dared to think. Putting any moral equality between western participation in World War II and Soviets is just wrong!

cameldrv 7y ago
Not to mention the fact that the Soviet Union kept the half of Poland that they took, and it's now part of Belarus and Ukraine.
- mikolaselo 7y ago
  Stop calling these territories Polish ones. They belonged to Belarus and Ukraine before. Poland took these territories after 1918-1921 Soviet Polish war. These territories were Part of Big Belarusian- Lithevian country. This country was in Union with Poland.
  - Isinlor 7y ago
    Where did you take the "Big Belarusian-Lithevian country" from? As far as I know, this name is used neither in Polish, Lithuanian, nor English. The proper name is "the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Ruthenia and Samogitia" (Wielkie Księstwo Litewskie, Rusi i Żmudzi), that was part of the "Crown of the Kingdom of Poland" and the "Grand Duchy of Lithuania". After the Constitution of May 3 and Reciprocal Guarantee of Two Nations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_Guarantee_of_Two_Nations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_Guarantee_of_Two_Na...), this state became the "Commonwealth of Poland" ("Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów" or as referred to in the current Polish constitution "Pierwsza Rzeczpospolita"). And... What belonged to who is quite close to meaningless. When do you want to set the date of the original ownership? Some 35 000 years ago when these lands were probably first settled or at some arbitrary point later on? How do you treat the right to self-determination and regions of mixed ethnicity with no absolute majority? Lands of current Belarus and Ukraine belonged to Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth before partitions, then they belonged mostly to Russia. After the first World War, we ended up in a very complex situation with vast regions with populations of mixed ethnicity and conflicting claims that resulted in wars. Poland claimed these lands as did Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine based on the wave of the modern ideas of a nation state. Poland managed to overpower them and focused on Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth as the original ownership. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Krai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Krai The idea of state ownership of land has really no absolute truth to it. There are no rules that will allow fairly dividing Africa after what was done to that continent during colonialism, Middle East including Palestine or central and eastern Europe. Well, even dealing with Brexit is quite an impossible task.
whuaminot 7y ago
Hear, hear. Soviet victory in WW2 itself is a distortion of history. The second world war is as much a product of the Soviet Union as of Nazi Germany. So somebody please explain to me, how a murderous, treacherous regime that armed, trained and conspired with the Nazis is now a victor of the war. In understand that the allies were desperate, but the price of their "victory", was paid by millions of people who ended up behind the iron curtain. Yalta was a betrayal. Soviets did not liberate. They occupied. They stabbed in the back (look up the Warsaw uprising and what the red army did then). They raped and murdered. They overstayed and terrorized. They fought a regime that put people in concentration camps and then built a system of camps that killed even more people.

cameldrv 7y ago

Not to mention the fact that the Soviet Union kept the half of Poland that they took, and it's now part of Belarus and Ukraine.

mikolaselo 7y ago
Stop calling these territories Polish ones. They belonged to Belarus and Ukraine before. Poland took these territories after 1918-1921 Soviet Polish war. These territories were Part of Big Belarusian- Lithevian country. This country was in Union with Poland.
- Isinlor 7y ago
  Where did you take the "Big Belarusian-Lithevian country" from? As far as I know, this name is used neither in Polish, Lithuanian, nor English. The proper name is "the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Ruthenia and Samogitia" (Wielkie Księstwo Litewskie, Rusi i Żmudzi), that was part of the "Crown of the Kingdom of Poland" and the "Grand Duchy of Lithuania". After the Constitution of May 3 and Reciprocal Guarantee of Two Nations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_Guarantee_of_Two_Nations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_Guarantee_of_Two_Na...), this state became the "Commonwealth of Poland" ("Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów" or as referred to in the current Polish constitution "Pierwsza Rzeczpospolita"). And... What belonged to who is quite close to meaningless. When do you want to set the date of the original ownership? Some 35 000 years ago when these lands were probably first settled or at some arbitrary point later on? How do you treat the right to self-determination and regions of mixed ethnicity with no absolute majority? Lands of current Belarus and Ukraine belonged to Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth before partitions, then they belonged mostly to Russia. After the first World War, we ended up in a very complex situation with vast regions with populations of mixed ethnicity and conflicting claims that resulted in wars. Poland claimed these lands as did Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine based on the wave of the modern ideas of a nation state. Poland managed to overpower them and focused on Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth as the original ownership. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Krai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Krai The idea of state ownership of land has really no absolute truth to it. There are no rules that will allow fairly dividing Africa after what was done to that continent during colonialism, Middle East including Palestine or central and eastern Europe. Well, even dealing with Brexit is quite an impossible task.

whuaminot 7y ago

Hear, hear. Soviet victory in WW2 itself is a distortion of history. The second world war is as much a product of the Soviet Union as of Nazi Germany. So somebody please explain to me, how a murderous, treacherous regime that armed, trained and conspired with the Nazis is now a victor of the war. In understand that the allies were desperate, but the price of their "victory", was paid by millions of people who ended up behind the iron curtain. Yalta was a betrayal. Soviets did not liberate. They occupied. They stabbed in the back (look up the Warsaw uprising and what the red army did then). They raped and murdered. They overstayed and terrorized. They fought a regime that put people in concentration camps and then built a system of camps that killed even more people.