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I'm not sure this is true in Copenhagen, although I've only visited once and I don't have any data to back me up. There is a huge cycling culture there and it s

I'm not sure this is true in Copenhagen, although I've only visited once and I don't have any data to back me up. There is a huge cycling culture there and it seemed that the bike lanes were often pretty badly jammed up while the car lanes were relatively clear. But perhaps this is more a result of it being impractical to own a car there (eg parking) as opposed to the cost or convenience of operating one. It would seem to be an outlier so it would be interesting to see some data.

anonymou2 7y ago
That was the whole point of bike lanes, get cyclists off the roads and leave these exclusively for motorists. So It seems it has worked pretty well. Generations of cyclists fooled by this, it's so sad.
liotier 7y ago
Why do those cyclists stay on the bicycle lane when it is clogged and other lanes are clear ? Here in Paris, I can't imagine anyone behaving in such submissive manner
- VBprogrammer 7y ago
  I admit it's a stereotype but the German's are certainly more inclined to follow the rules than the average. Certainly when compared to the French. Edit: Excuse the stupidity. I read Cologne in my head.
  - untog 7y ago
    Perhaps, but Copenhagen isn't in Germany
  - liotier 7y ago
    > more inclined to follow the rules Cycling lanes exist for the cyclist's convenience but there are no rule that make them mandatory
    - anonymou2 7y ago
      No, they exist for motorists' convenience, as can be seen from the example. Cyclists have been brainwashed for the last 50 years to believe that riding on the regular road means instant death, that's why they stay in the bike lane even if the normal road is empty.
      - akvadrako 7y ago
        It sounds like you're talking about American cyclists. In Amsterdam (and maybe Copenhagen) cyclists are dominant over cars. But it would be pretty rude to ride in the car lane for any distance when a bike lane is available.
        anonymou2 7y ago
        So you just admitted that also in Amsterdam bike lanes are made for the convenience of motorists.
        akvadrako 7y ago
        Not at all - in many recent renovations they reduce the car lanes from two-way with parking to a single one-way, making room for double wide bike lanes. The plan is to make it so cars won’t drive through the city, but still be able to reach each spot.
    - Faark 7y ago
      Are we talking about german law? Cause usage of bike ways can be mandatory depending on signage according to StVO § 2 Abs. 4 [0]. [0] (german) https://dejure.org/gesetze/StVO/2.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/StVO/2.html
  - kaybe 7y ago
    On bikes? Bhahahaha.. I don't think so. On the other hand, I've had good success with driving a car like I ride a bike here in less rule-abiding places to fit in. Rule-following seems to be a function of the sensibility of the rules. When the rules don't work for you you stop adhering to them, and the rules for bicycles often don't make sense in a car-centric world.
  - jchrisa 7y ago
    Cologne and Copenhagen both have very strong cultures of abiding by traffic signals, even for pedestrians. One time in Cologne I started to feel awkward that we are all waiting, and suddenly a sports car zoomed out of a tunnel and through a green light. That's why no one was crossing against the light.
- eythian 7y ago
  I live and bike in Amsterdam, which also gets heavy bike traffic. The thing is, things still work more smoothly if you are in the bike lane. The signals there are tailored to you, and you can get a whole pile of bikes through a light change even though it looks busy because they pack much denser than car traffic. If necessary, bikes will take space from cars, but it's not usually required. Also, the busier parts tend to be in places where it's not useful to go in the car lanes anyway, or they're already mixed-mode (in which case it's the car traffic slowing everyone down because they end up stuck behind one slow cyclist, but 20 cyclists are stuck behind the car.)
- alistairSH 7y ago
  From visiting Amsterdam, the bicycle lanes are well designed for bicycles. Even when crowded, staying in the correct lane seems to work well. Pedestrians on the sidewalk, bikes in the bike lane, cars in the car lane (plus the light rail). Signals and crossing are designed so all 3 user groups can get where they need to go. In the US, where most bike lanes are half-assed attempts (no physical separation, no signals, poorly conceived traffic crossings at turn lanes), a crowded bike lane quickly becomes unusable and bikes spill into the traffic lane.
- Someone 7y ago
  In the Netherlands, current design calls for three types of streets: - highways, speed limit >= 100. Cyclists can’t go there (but alternative, cycleable routes always exist) - main arteries into cities, speed limit 50, with separated cycle tracks. - ‘last quarter mile’ roads, speed limit 30, where cars and bicycles share the road. So, if there is a bicycle lane, it typically is separated from the car lanes by a barrier (row of trees, parking spots, etc) That makes switching from bicycle lane to car lane or switching back to the bicycle lane when the car lane gets busy hard to do. Also, you may be more likely to get a green light when riding in the bicycle lane, as the the induction loops there are designed to detect bicycles, not cars, and, on top of that, cyclists may be preferentially give green lights on crossings over cars.

anonymou2 7y ago

That was the whole point of bike lanes, get cyclists off the roads and leave these exclusively for motorists. So It seems it has worked pretty well. Generations of cyclists fooled by this, it's so sad.

liotier 7y ago

Why do those cyclists stay on the bicycle lane when it is clogged and other lanes are clear ? Here in Paris, I can't imagine anyone behaving in such submissive manner

VBprogrammer 7y ago
I admit it's a stereotype but the German's are certainly more inclined to follow the rules than the average. Certainly when compared to the French. Edit: Excuse the stupidity. I read Cologne in my head.
- untog 7y ago
  Perhaps, but Copenhagen isn't in Germany
- liotier 7y ago
  > more inclined to follow the rules Cycling lanes exist for the cyclist's convenience but there are no rule that make them mandatory
  - anonymou2 7y ago
    No, they exist for motorists' convenience, as can be seen from the example. Cyclists have been brainwashed for the last 50 years to believe that riding on the regular road means instant death, that's why they stay in the bike lane even if the normal road is empty.
    - akvadrako 7y ago
      It sounds like you're talking about American cyclists. In Amsterdam (and maybe Copenhagen) cyclists are dominant over cars. But it would be pretty rude to ride in the car lane for any distance when a bike lane is available.
      - anonymou2 7y ago
        So you just admitted that also in Amsterdam bike lanes are made for the convenience of motorists.
        akvadrako 7y ago
        Not at all - in many recent renovations they reduce the car lanes from two-way with parking to a single one-way, making room for double wide bike lanes. The plan is to make it so cars won’t drive through the city, but still be able to reach each spot.
  - Faark 7y ago
    Are we talking about german law? Cause usage of bike ways can be mandatory depending on signage according to StVO § 2 Abs. 4 [0]. [0] (german) https://dejure.org/gesetze/StVO/2.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/StVO/2.html
- kaybe 7y ago
  On bikes? Bhahahaha.. I don't think so. On the other hand, I've had good success with driving a car like I ride a bike here in less rule-abiding places to fit in. Rule-following seems to be a function of the sensibility of the rules. When the rules don't work for you you stop adhering to them, and the rules for bicycles often don't make sense in a car-centric world.
- jchrisa 7y ago
  Cologne and Copenhagen both have very strong cultures of abiding by traffic signals, even for pedestrians. One time in Cologne I started to feel awkward that we are all waiting, and suddenly a sports car zoomed out of a tunnel and through a green light. That's why no one was crossing against the light.
eythian 7y ago
I live and bike in Amsterdam, which also gets heavy bike traffic. The thing is, things still work more smoothly if you are in the bike lane. The signals there are tailored to you, and you can get a whole pile of bikes through a light change even though it looks busy because they pack much denser than car traffic. If necessary, bikes will take space from cars, but it's not usually required. Also, the busier parts tend to be in places where it's not useful to go in the car lanes anyway, or they're already mixed-mode (in which case it's the car traffic slowing everyone down because they end up stuck behind one slow cyclist, but 20 cyclists are stuck behind the car.)
alistairSH 7y ago
From visiting Amsterdam, the bicycle lanes are well designed for bicycles. Even when crowded, staying in the correct lane seems to work well. Pedestrians on the sidewalk, bikes in the bike lane, cars in the car lane (plus the light rail). Signals and crossing are designed so all 3 user groups can get where they need to go. In the US, where most bike lanes are half-assed attempts (no physical separation, no signals, poorly conceived traffic crossings at turn lanes), a crowded bike lane quickly becomes unusable and bikes spill into the traffic lane.
Someone 7y ago
In the Netherlands, current design calls for three types of streets: - highways, speed limit >= 100. Cyclists can’t go there (but alternative, cycleable routes always exist) - main arteries into cities, speed limit 50, with separated cycle tracks. - ‘last quarter mile’ roads, speed limit 30, where cars and bicycles share the road. So, if there is a bicycle lane, it typically is separated from the car lanes by a barrier (row of trees, parking spots, etc) That makes switching from bicycle lane to car lane or switching back to the bicycle lane when the car lane gets busy hard to do. Also, you may be more likely to get a green light when riding in the bicycle lane, as the the induction loops there are designed to detect bicycles, not cars, and, on top of that, cyclists may be preferentially give green lights on crossings over cars.