6 ms·

You would think that techies who constantly complain about crap documentation would realize quality writing is not free. (Best of luck BTW)

by lotu 7y ago

AstralStorm 7y ago
Come on, they're paid to do that, among other things.
DoreenMichele 7y ago
Thank you. It's especially crazy making because my writing sometimes spends time on the front page of HN, but I'm still talked at like a leech who is trying to "panhandle the internet," a thing someone (on a different forum, not here) literally accused me of for trying to monetize my websites while homeless. Like if you are poor enough, working for a living is not allowable and your work can't have value and you are merely a beggar. This piece took about two weeks to write, did fairly well on HN, got dramatically more traffic and discussion than anything else I've done and made zero money: https://raisingfutureadults.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-hand-licking-incident.html https://raisingfutureadults.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-hand-li... I used to have ads on everything. HN hates that and uses ad blockers more aggressively than most traffic sources. I've removed ads from most of my sites and moved to tip jars and Patreon. I get told I'm begging. HN actively looks for ways around pay walls. Etc ad nauseum ad infinitum. That mental model of "get traffic and somehow magically make money from it without charging anything" is rooted in using ads to monetize it. Even before the ad blocker wars tanked earnings worldwide on that model, HN aggressively used ad blockers. Everyone says "Well, not my problem. I'm not paying you. Figure it out your damn self." while actively sabotaging every possible pathway to making money off of producing good content. If you point out that this boils down to an expectation of slave labor to fill the front page with engaging content, you can count on downvotes and ugly replies. This is actually one of the things that makes me suicidal. I feel like I can't breath. I'm poor because in part because of this shit, then told my poverty is evidence of incompetence, thus reason to justify not hiring me, etc. It's a trap I can find no way out of, no matter what I do. Playing along with what people demand, such as removing all ads, makes no real difference. There is no point at which good writing independently created etc etc that HN/the world says it wants actually leads to a middle class income. Then classism kicks in and you might as well go kill yourself. The world won't allow you to make your life work. Fuck you. If you complain, expect a beat down. 0_o
- antisemiotic 7y ago
  >That mental model of "get traffic and somehow magically make money from it without charging anything" is rooted in using ads to monetize it. These days it seems more like "burn VC money like there's no tomorrow, try all sorts of shady shit when you feel the investors' breath on your neck".
- Veen 7y ago
  There is a way to make money from writing beyond publishing and hoping that readers will pay for your work after the fact. Most sustainable writing has never worked on that model. Traditionally, writers were paid by publishers and it was the publishers job to extract payment from readers. Today, writers try to be both writers and publishers, and they find it extremely difficult. That's no surprise; professional publishers also find it extremely difficult to monetize their content. Writers applauded the web for disintermediating the relationship between them and their readers, but publishers had an important role to play; they promoted content and made sure that people paid for it. Blogging and expecting to be paid for it is like a developer releasing their code for free on GitHub and then expecting people to pay to use it. Some developers can build a "community" who will pay, but most will fail. However, developers do make money from people who want particular software, and writers can work on a similar model. I make a decent living ghost writing for executives and writing marketing content for tech companies. I don't write what I want or what I think is most important, but I make a living doing something I enjoy.
  - incompatible 7y ago
    There is an alternative model for paying for things that can't be provided through market forces. Readers of Hacker News don't particularly like it, and you tend to get down-voted for suggesting it, but whatever. Things like scientific research, roads, health care (in many developed countries outside the US), education, the BBC in the UK and ABC in Australia. Yes, the government funds it. We can tie this in with a desire to do something about underemployment, by job-guarantee type government programs. On the minimum wage perhaps, but that's better than some people get now.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago

You would think that techies who constantly complain about crap documentation would realize quality writing is not free. (Best of luck BTW)

by lotu 7y ago

You would think that techies who constantly complain about crap documentation would realize quality writing is not free. (Best of luck BTW)

AstralStorm 7y ago

Come on, they're paid to do that, among other things.

DoreenMichele 7y ago

Thank you. It's especially crazy making because my writing sometimes spends time on the front page of HN, but I'm still talked at like a leech who is trying to "panhandle the internet," a thing someone (on a different forum, not here) literally accused me of for trying to monetize my websites while homeless. Like if you are poor enough, working for a living is not allowable and your work can't have value and you are merely a beggar. This piece took about two weeks to write, did fairly well on HN, got dramatically more traffic and discussion than anything else I've done and made zero money: https://raisingfutureadults.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-hand-licking-incident.html https://raisingfutureadults.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-hand-li... I used to have ads on everything. HN hates that and uses ad blockers more aggressively than most traffic sources. I've removed ads from most of my sites and moved to tip jars and Patreon. I get told I'm begging. HN actively looks for ways around pay walls. Etc ad nauseum ad infinitum. That mental model of "get traffic and somehow magically make money from it without charging anything" is rooted in using ads to monetize it. Even before the ad blocker wars tanked earnings worldwide on that model, HN aggressively used ad blockers. Everyone says "Well, not my problem. I'm not paying you. Figure it out your damn self." while actively sabotaging every possible pathway to making money off of producing good content. If you point out that this boils down to an expectation of slave labor to fill the front page with engaging content, you can count on downvotes and ugly replies. This is actually one of the things that makes me suicidal. I feel like I can't breath. I'm poor because in part because of this shit, then told my poverty is evidence of incompetence, thus reason to justify not hiring me, etc. It's a trap I can find no way out of, no matter what I do. Playing along with what people demand, such as removing all ads, makes no real difference. There is no point at which good writing independently created etc etc that HN/the world says it wants actually leads to a middle class income. Then classism kicks in and you might as well go kill yourself. The world won't allow you to make your life work. Fuck you. If you complain, expect a beat down. 0_o

antisemiotic 7y ago
>That mental model of "get traffic and somehow magically make money from it without charging anything" is rooted in using ads to monetize it. These days it seems more like "burn VC money like there's no tomorrow, try all sorts of shady shit when you feel the investors' breath on your neck".
Veen 7y ago
There is a way to make money from writing beyond publishing and hoping that readers will pay for your work after the fact. Most sustainable writing has never worked on that model. Traditionally, writers were paid by publishers and it was the publishers job to extract payment from readers. Today, writers try to be both writers and publishers, and they find it extremely difficult. That's no surprise; professional publishers also find it extremely difficult to monetize their content. Writers applauded the web for disintermediating the relationship between them and their readers, but publishers had an important role to play; they promoted content and made sure that people paid for it. Blogging and expecting to be paid for it is like a developer releasing their code for free on GitHub and then expecting people to pay to use it. Some developers can build a "community" who will pay, but most will fail. However, developers do make money from people who want particular software, and writers can work on a similar model. I make a decent living ghost writing for executives and writing marketing content for tech companies. I don't write what I want or what I think is most important, but I make a living doing something I enjoy.
- incompatible 7y ago
  There is an alternative model for paying for things that can't be provided through market forces. Readers of Hacker News don't particularly like it, and you tend to get down-voted for suggesting it, but whatever. Things like scientific research, roads, health care (in many developed countries outside the US), education, the BBC in the UK and ABC in Australia. Yes, the government funds it. We can tie this in with a desire to do something about underemployment, by job-guarantee type government programs. On the minimum wage perhaps, but that's better than some people get now.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago