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As a counter-anecdote, the built in Ruby interpreter in Mac OS X Tiger was the way I learned to program and how I got interested in programming. I don't think a

As a counter-anecdote, the built in Ruby interpreter in Mac OS X Tiger was the way I learned to program and how I got interested in programming. I don't think a bare Ruby interpreter is the best way to get into programming, but Apple hasn't been great at encouraging programming among kids. As a kid, its development tools were totally baffling, where Ruby was much easier to understand.

oarsinsync 7y ago
> Apple hasn't been great at encouraging programming among kids You should check out what they’ve been doing for years with Swift Playgrounds on the iPad
- bnt 7y ago
  But that's teaching a new generation of coders a set of tools designed only for Apple. Ruby (Python etc) are open and easily available on other platforms, Swift may be in the future but it isn't now.
  - ash_gti 7y ago
    How about using a web browser with JavaScript? Maybe not the best language for someone new but its widely available.
    - gridlockd 7y ago
      How about just a web browser? You can run almost any language from a web browser these days: https://repl.it/languages/ https://repl.it/languages/ A lot of educational sites offer embedded interpreters like this. It has never been easier to start to learn programming. The real challenge nowadays is maintaining attention...
  - willyt 7y ago
    Swift is open and available on other platforms. I can install it on a raspberry pi if I want. https://swiftreviewer.com/2018/12/21/swift-programming-on-raspberry-pi-part-2-3/ https://swiftreviewer.com/2018/12/21/swift-programming-on-ra...
  - schrodinger 7y ago
    Once you’ve learned one programming language, it’s not hard to learn a second. It’s not terribly important what you’re first language is, and Swift isn’t a bad starting point anyway.
  - swebs 7y ago
    Huh? You can download Ubuntu builds right on their site https://swift.org/download/ https://swift.org/download/
  - goalieca 7y ago
    Funny. I learned on qbasic and I remember they were teaching dr racket at ubc to first year students. They were teaching java when I was in engineering and my career has basically gotten zero Mileage from that stinking heap of uncollected garbage.
sciencerobot 7y ago
One of the things that drew me to Macs as I started to learn programming in '05 was that I could simply open any macbook and type python/ruby/perl and write some code.
- Fnoord 7y ago
  Different time. Now you got Homebrew
  - pdpi 7y ago
    Which installs itself based on the system Ruby. Will be interesting to see how that plays out.
    - Fnoord 7y ago
      They just pack a statically compiled Ruby interpreter with Homebrew. Not very complex or novel. Disadvantage: install becomes more bloated (larger size).
      - pdpi 7y ago
        Sure, it’s not a hard engineering challenge. However, installation instructions right now are as simple as “run this one-liner on your terminal”. That’ll have to materially change.
        Fnoord 7y ago
        > Sure, it’s not a hard engineering challenge. However, installation instructions right now are as simple as “run this one-liner on your terminal”. That’ll have to materially change. It could just as well still remain a one-liner. Every system Homebrew is installed on has Bash installed (not the latest, but still). Instead of > /usr/bin/ruby -e "$(curl -fsSL https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/master/install)" https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/master/in... It could become > curl -fsSL https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/master/install https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/master/in... | bash With the install script containing a payload containing the current Ruby script plus a Ruby interpreter. Still a "one liner".
crazysim 7y ago
Swift Playground for macOS? One can hope!
- comex 7y ago
  Technically Xcode has supported Playgrounds since before the iOS app existed, though if you mean the teaching content, it doesn't have that.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
peterburkimsher 7y ago
I had the opposite experience with AppleScript - the development tool (Script Editor) was simple enough for me to understand that it was the way I taught myself to program when I was 13. (OK, I learned Logo in school when I was 7, but programming became way more interesting when I discovered AppleScript's APIs to control all the programs on my Mac).
coldtea 7y ago
>As a counter-anecdote, the built in Ruby interpreter in Mac OS X Tiger was the way I learned to program and how I got interested in programming And you think a one-click download and install of Ruby would have prevented that? Not to mention Apple also has Swift, and Swift Playgrounds and so on for kids these days.
firecall 7y ago
Sure... but that was then. I too had a real hard time learning Ruby back in the day. But now if you google any Ruby or Rails how-tos they will include a one-line Brew and RBENV install. So I get what you are saying but I think we are in a new world here.

oarsinsync 7y ago

> Apple hasn't been great at encouraging programming among kids You should check out what they’ve been doing for years with Swift Playgrounds on the iPad

bnt 7y ago
But that's teaching a new generation of coders a set of tools designed only for Apple. Ruby (Python etc) are open and easily available on other platforms, Swift may be in the future but it isn't now.
- ash_gti 7y ago
  How about using a web browser with JavaScript? Maybe not the best language for someone new but its widely available.
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    How about just a web browser? You can run almost any language from a web browser these days: https://repl.it/languages/ https://repl.it/languages/ A lot of educational sites offer embedded interpreters like this. It has never been easier to start to learn programming. The real challenge nowadays is maintaining attention...
- willyt 7y ago
  Swift is open and available on other platforms. I can install it on a raspberry pi if I want. https://swiftreviewer.com/2018/12/21/swift-programming-on-raspberry-pi-part-2-3/ https://swiftreviewer.com/2018/12/21/swift-programming-on-ra...
- schrodinger 7y ago
  Once you’ve learned one programming language, it’s not hard to learn a second. It’s not terribly important what you’re first language is, and Swift isn’t a bad starting point anyway.
- swebs 7y ago
  Huh? You can download Ubuntu builds right on their site https://swift.org/download/ https://swift.org/download/
- goalieca 7y ago
  Funny. I learned on qbasic and I remember they were teaching dr racket at ubc to first year students. They were teaching java when I was in engineering and my career has basically gotten zero Mileage from that stinking heap of uncollected garbage.

sciencerobot 7y ago

One of the things that drew me to Macs as I started to learn programming in '05 was that I could simply open any macbook and type python/ruby/perl and write some code.

Fnoord 7y ago
Different time. Now you got Homebrew
- pdpi 7y ago
  Which installs itself based on the system Ruby. Will be interesting to see how that plays out.
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    They just pack a statically compiled Ruby interpreter with Homebrew. Not very complex or novel. Disadvantage: install becomes more bloated (larger size).
    - pdpi 7y ago
      Sure, it’s not a hard engineering challenge. However, installation instructions right now are as simple as “run this one-liner on your terminal”. That’ll have to materially change.
      - Fnoord 7y ago
        > Sure, it’s not a hard engineering challenge. However, installation instructions right now are as simple as “run this one-liner on your terminal”. That’ll have to materially change. It could just as well still remain a one-liner. Every system Homebrew is installed on has Bash installed (not the latest, but still). Instead of > /usr/bin/ruby -e "$(curl -fsSL https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/master/install)" https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/master/in... It could become > curl -fsSL https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/master/install https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/master/in... | bash With the install script containing a payload containing the current Ruby script plus a Ruby interpreter. Still a "one liner".

crazysim 7y ago

Swift Playground for macOS? One can hope!

comex 7y ago
Technically Xcode has supported Playgrounds since before the iOS app existed, though if you mean the teaching content, it doesn't have that.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

peterburkimsher 7y ago

I had the opposite experience with AppleScript - the development tool (Script Editor) was simple enough for me to understand that it was the way I taught myself to program when I was 13. (OK, I learned Logo in school when I was 7, but programming became way more interesting when I discovered AppleScript's APIs to control all the programs on my Mac).

coldtea 7y ago

>As a counter-anecdote, the built in Ruby interpreter in Mac OS X Tiger was the way I learned to program and how I got interested in programming And you think a one-click download and install of Ruby would have prevented that? Not to mention Apple also has Swift, and Swift Playgrounds and so on for kids these days.

firecall 7y ago

Sure... but that was then. I too had a real hard time learning Ruby back in the day. But now if you google any Ruby or Rails how-tos they will include a one-line Brew and RBENV install. So I get what you are saying but I think we are in a new world here.