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Noone uses the so called text book Hindi on the street. Text book Hindi was introduced as a way to eliminate Persian words from Hindi about 100 years ago. So fa

Noone uses the so called text book Hindi on the street. Text book Hindi was introduced as a way to eliminate Persian words from Hindi about 100 years ago. So far text book Hindi has stayed strictly inside text books and dramas. Zaroor is indeed a Hindi word of Persian origin. Just like zeher, as opposed to Vish - which can only be found in text books.

yumraj 7y ago
What's your point? I already said in a separate comment that there is colloquial Hindi, which like many other languages has words from other languages, especially from Urdu. But that does not make those words Hindi. They remain Urdu words. We similarly use several words from Latin, French and other languages in colloquial English, but from pure language standpoint I doubt that they'd be called English words. Edit: A Wikipedia page of interest [0] [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi–Urdu_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi–Urdu_controversy
- smallnamespace 7y ago
  Would you consider 'similar', 'several', 'language', 'colloquial', or 'doubt' to be English words? All of them are of foreign origin.
  - yumraj 7y ago
    I'm not qualified to answer that. Me personally, yes I would. A linguist, I can't say, would perhaps depend on each word and when they became part of the language. Hindi is obviously derived from Sanskrit and other languages. However, Hindi and Urdu are quiet different. Give a word and in most cases most people will be able to tell if it's a Hindi word or an Urdu word.
    - random314 7y ago
      Clearly you are not qualified to answer the questions, but you keep on answering. Linguistically there is no difference between Hindi and Urdu. The primary criterion is grammatical structure which is identical in Hindi and Urdu. Writing systems and choice of nouns don't matter either. Hindi is not obviously derived from Sanskrit. Can a Hindi speaker follow Sanskrit easily or is Punjabi easier? Urdu/Hindi are indirectly derived from Sanskrit and both of them have the same connection to Sanskrit. The so called pure Hindi/Urdu is a language noone speaks. The artificial text book Hindi which noone speaks was constructed 100 years ago by replacing Persian loanwords with Sanskrit words and writing suitable Sanskrit based dictionaries. If you are certain that pure Hindi is a thing, please tell us what percentage of Hindi speaking population uses nischit in place of zaroor and why is this minority Hindi pure. As a side note, language relationships are not dictated by loan words. Otherwise south Indian languages would be considered indo-aryan rather than dravidian. In fact, some south Indian languages use more Sanskrit based words than Hindi. The only difference between hindi and Urdu is political. Appendix: list of loanwords from Persian in Hindi, for which nobody uses Sanskrit based equivalents in real life. Saaya, hamesha, pareshaan, Khushi, sabzi, mehrban, deewar, taaza, darwaaza. Maybe there is some dude somewhere who uses pratidin instead of Roz - I have never met this mythical creature. Just like using a word like "light* in a Hindi sentence doesn't change the language, neither does using Persian loanwords.
      - yumraj 7y ago
        Over and out.
        dang 7y ago
        Crossing into personal attack will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone is. Doubly so when the topic is divisive, for example as nationalistic topics are. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and edit the incivilities out of your comments here in the future? We'd appreciate it.
      - dang 7y ago
        Crossing into personal attack will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone is. Doubly so when the topic is divisive, for example as nationalistic topics are. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and edit the incivilities out of your comments here in the future? We'd appreciate it.
- lagolinguini 7y ago
  Would you say सफ़ेद, गरम, अख़बार, वक़्त, मुज्ररिम, इलज़ाम, ख़त, etc are not Hindi words? Would you rather say श्वेत, ऊष्म, समाचारपत्र, मुजरिम, आरोप, पत्र? Most people use them interchangeably.
  - kranner 7y ago
    Most people just use words in the former category. A lot of people wouldn't even recognise some of the words in the latter category if they heard them being spoken, as opposed to seeing them in writing.
  - yumraj 7y ago
    Yes, they are Urdu words, not Hindi. Yes, they are more commonly used than the Hindi words you mentioned. For what it's worth, मुजरिम is also Urdu. Not sure about आरोप, but I have a feeling that it's also Urdu, though I could be wrong. Edit: read any Hindi newspaper these days, at least the online edition, and in fact you will find a lot of common Hindi/Urdu words being replaced with English words written in Devnagri.
    - random314 7y ago
      What you have been basically arguing is that Urdu is India's most widely spoken language and Hindi is a niche minority language, definitely outside the top 20.
      - yumraj 7y ago
        It's not clear to me how that conclusion can be drawn simply my looking at a very small set of words, while completely ignoring all else that makes a language. Moreover, there are hundreds of dialects of Hindi spoken in India, each with its own nuances and varying degrees of Urdu words. In addition, there is no denying that Urdu and Hindi have some shared lineage. Again will refer to the Wikipedia [0] for better coverage of this topic [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi–Urdu_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi–Urdu_controversy

yumraj 7y ago

What's your point? I already said in a separate comment that there is colloquial Hindi, which like many other languages has words from other languages, especially from Urdu. But that does not make those words Hindi. They remain Urdu words. We similarly use several words from Latin, French and other languages in colloquial English, but from pure language standpoint I doubt that they'd be called English words. Edit: A Wikipedia page of interest [0] [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi–Urdu_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi–Urdu_controversy

smallnamespace 7y ago
Would you consider 'similar', 'several', 'language', 'colloquial', or 'doubt' to be English words? All of them are of foreign origin.
- yumraj 7y ago
  I'm not qualified to answer that. Me personally, yes I would. A linguist, I can't say, would perhaps depend on each word and when they became part of the language. Hindi is obviously derived from Sanskrit and other languages. However, Hindi and Urdu are quiet different. Give a word and in most cases most people will be able to tell if it's a Hindi word or an Urdu word.
  - random314 7y ago
    Clearly you are not qualified to answer the questions, but you keep on answering. Linguistically there is no difference between Hindi and Urdu. The primary criterion is grammatical structure which is identical in Hindi and Urdu. Writing systems and choice of nouns don't matter either. Hindi is not obviously derived from Sanskrit. Can a Hindi speaker follow Sanskrit easily or is Punjabi easier? Urdu/Hindi are indirectly derived from Sanskrit and both of them have the same connection to Sanskrit. The so called pure Hindi/Urdu is a language noone speaks. The artificial text book Hindi which noone speaks was constructed 100 years ago by replacing Persian loanwords with Sanskrit words and writing suitable Sanskrit based dictionaries. If you are certain that pure Hindi is a thing, please tell us what percentage of Hindi speaking population uses nischit in place of zaroor and why is this minority Hindi pure. As a side note, language relationships are not dictated by loan words. Otherwise south Indian languages would be considered indo-aryan rather than dravidian. In fact, some south Indian languages use more Sanskrit based words than Hindi. The only difference between hindi and Urdu is political. Appendix: list of loanwords from Persian in Hindi, for which nobody uses Sanskrit based equivalents in real life. Saaya, hamesha, pareshaan, Khushi, sabzi, mehrban, deewar, taaza, darwaaza. Maybe there is some dude somewhere who uses pratidin instead of Roz - I have never met this mythical creature. Just like using a word like "light* in a Hindi sentence doesn't change the language, neither does using Persian loanwords.
    - yumraj 7y ago
      Over and out.
      - dang 7y ago
        Crossing into personal attack will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone is. Doubly so when the topic is divisive, for example as nationalistic topics are. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and edit the incivilities out of your comments here in the future? We'd appreciate it.
    - dang 7y ago
      Crossing into personal attack will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone is. Doubly so when the topic is divisive, for example as nationalistic topics are. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and edit the incivilities out of your comments here in the future? We'd appreciate it.
lagolinguini 7y ago
Would you say सफ़ेद, गरम, अख़बार, वक़्त, मुज्ररिम, इलज़ाम, ख़त, etc are not Hindi words? Would you rather say श्वेत, ऊष्म, समाचारपत्र, मुजरिम, आरोप, पत्र? Most people use them interchangeably.
- kranner 7y ago
  Most people just use words in the former category. A lot of people wouldn't even recognise some of the words in the latter category if they heard them being spoken, as opposed to seeing them in writing.
- yumraj 7y ago
  Yes, they are Urdu words, not Hindi. Yes, they are more commonly used than the Hindi words you mentioned. For what it's worth, मुजरिम is also Urdu. Not sure about आरोप, but I have a feeling that it's also Urdu, though I could be wrong. Edit: read any Hindi newspaper these days, at least the online edition, and in fact you will find a lot of common Hindi/Urdu words being replaced with English words written in Devnagri.
  - random314 7y ago
    What you have been basically arguing is that Urdu is India's most widely spoken language and Hindi is a niche minority language, definitely outside the top 20.
    - yumraj 7y ago
      It's not clear to me how that conclusion can be drawn simply my looking at a very small set of words, while completely ignoring all else that makes a language. Moreover, there are hundreds of dialects of Hindi spoken in India, each with its own nuances and varying degrees of Urdu words. In addition, there is no denying that Urdu and Hindi have some shared lineage. Again will refer to the Wikipedia [0] for better coverage of this topic [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi–Urdu_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi–Urdu_controversy