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Jaroor/zaroor is Urdu word. Hindi is निश्चित (nishchit). Just because zaroor is commonly used doesn't make it Hindi.
by yumraj 7y ago
Jaroor/zaroor is Urdu word. Hindi is निश्चित (nishchit).
Just because zaroor is commonly used doesn't make it Hindi.
- random314 7y agoNoone uses the so called text book Hindi on the street. Text book Hindi was introduced as a way to eliminate Persian words from Hindi about 100 years ago. So far text book Hindi has stayed strictly inside text books and dramas. Zaroor is indeed a Hindi word of Persian origin. Just like zeher, as opposed to Vish - which can only be found in text books.
- yumraj 7y agoWhat's your point? I already said in a separate comment that there is colloquial Hindi, which like many other languages has words from other languages, especially from Urdu. But that does not make those words Hindi. They remain Urdu words. We similarly use several words from Latin, French and other languages in colloquial English, but from pure language standpoint I doubt that they'd be called English words. Edit: A Wikipedia page of interest [0] [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi–Urdu_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi–Urdu_controversy
- smallnamespace 7y agoWould you consider 'similar', 'several', 'language', 'colloquial', or 'doubt' to be English words? All of them are of foreign origin.
- yumraj 7y agoI'm not qualified to answer that. Me personally, yes I would. A linguist, I can't say, would perhaps depend on each word and when they became part of the language. Hindi is obviously derived from Sanskrit and other languages. However, Hindi and Urdu are quiet different. Give a word and in most cases most people will be able to tell if it's a Hindi word or an Urdu word.
- random314 7y agoClearly you are not qualified to answer the questions, but you keep on answering. Linguistically there is no difference between Hindi and Urdu. The primary criterion is grammatical structure which is identical in Hindi and Urdu. Writing systems and choice of nouns don't matter either. Hindi is not obviously derived from Sanskrit. Can a Hindi speaker follow Sanskrit easily or is Punjabi easier? Urdu/Hindi are indirectly derived from Sanskrit and both of them have the same connection to Sanskrit. The so called pure Hindi/Urdu is a language noone speaks. The artificial text book Hindi which noone speaks was constructed 100 years ago by replacing Persian loanwords with Sanskrit words and writing suitable Sanskrit based dictionaries. If you are certain that pure Hindi is a thing, please tell us what percentage of Hindi speaking population uses nischit in place of zaroor and why is this minority Hindi pure. As a side note, language relationships are not dictated by loan words. Otherwise south Indian languages would be considered indo-aryan rather than dravidian. In fact, some south Indian languages use more Sanskrit based words than Hindi. The only difference between hindi and Urdu is political. Appendix: list of loanwords from Persian in Hindi, for which nobody uses Sanskrit based equivalents in real life. Saaya, hamesha, pareshaan, Khushi, sabzi, mehrban, deewar, taaza, darwaaza. Maybe there is some dude somewhere who uses pratidin instead of Roz - I have never met this mythical creature. Just like using a word like "light* in a Hindi sentence doesn't change the language, neither does using Persian loanwords.
- yumraj 7y agoOver and out.
- dang 7y agoCrossing into personal attack will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone is. Doubly so when the topic is divisive, for example as nationalistic topics are. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and edit the incivilities out of your comments here in the future? We'd appreciate it.
- dang 7y ago
- lagolinguini 7y agoWould you say सफ़ेद, गरम, अख़बार, वक़्त, मुज्ररिम, इलज़ाम, ख़त, etc are not Hindi words? Would you rather say श्वेत, ऊष्म, समाचारपत्र, मुजरिम, आरोप, पत्र? Most people use them interchangeably.
- kranner 7y agoMost people just use words in the former category. A lot of people wouldn't even recognise some of the words in the latter category if they heard them being spoken, as opposed to seeing them in writing.
- yumraj 7y agoYes, they are Urdu words, not Hindi. Yes, they are more commonly used than the Hindi words you mentioned. For what it's worth, मुजरिम is also Urdu. Not sure about आरोप, but I have a feeling that it's also Urdu, though I could be wrong. Edit: read any Hindi newspaper these days, at least the online edition, and in fact you will find a lot of common Hindi/Urdu words being replaced with English words written in Devnagri.
- random314 7y agoWhat you have been basically arguing is that Urdu is India's most widely spoken language and Hindi is a niche minority language, definitely outside the top 20.
- yumraj 7y agoIt's not clear to me how that conclusion can be drawn simply my looking at a very small set of words, while completely ignoring all else that makes a language. Moreover, there are hundreds of dialects of Hindi spoken in India, each with its own nuances and varying degrees of Urdu words. In addition, there is no denying that Urdu and Hindi have some shared lineage. Again will refer to the Wikipedia [0] for better coverage of this topic [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi–Urdu_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi–Urdu_controversy
- kranner 7y ago> Just because zaroor is commonly used doesn't make it Hindi. By this reasoning Urdu is the most widely spoken language of India. 'Nishchit' doesn't even by itself replace 'zaroor'. 'Nishchit' means certain or definite. To replace 'zaroor' (certainly or definitely) you would actually have to say 'nishchit roop se'. Hindi-speaking people absolutely use 'zaroor' and 'bilkul' instead of 'nishchit roop se' when they're actually speaking Hindi, instead of self-consciously speaking Sanskritised Hindi in a formal register -- and this is always in the context of a specific political alignment.
- random314 7y ago> By this reasoning Urdu is the most widely spoken language of India. Exactly! Couldn't have worded it better.
- z3phyr 7y agoअवश्य - Avashya It is closer to "Certainly"
- kranner 7y agoYes, but I didn't say there was no word in formal Hindi that didn't mean the same thing as 'zaroor'. I said 'nishchit' isn't that word. 'Avashya' is again a word you wouldn't be able to use in colloquial speech without coming across as eccentric. It means the same thing as 'zaroor' but it's like saying "I am desirous of x" instead of "I want x".
- z3phyr 7y agoMy grandmother was illiterate, but I remember her using Avashya even when she did not speak Khari boli much
- kranner 7y agoI've grown up in North India and have never word anyone speak the word "avashya" outside of a Hindi lesson. I can only assume your grandmother was using it as an exemplar for your benefit. Perhaps there are communities where it is spoken colloquially but by far the norm is "zaroor" or "jaroor" (same word but the sound has shifted in some places like Western UP from Z to J). You can find examples of the use of "avashya" in the movies of Hrishikesh Mukherjee (like Golmaal and Chupke-Chupke) in which off-beat characters who made a special point of speaking the purest Hindi as part of their characters' eccentricity used "avashya" and other words like it, while the other characters who spoke normal Hindi didn't.
- _emacsomancer_ 7y agoThat's like saying: "Star is a Latin word. English is tungol. Just because English speakers say star all the time doesn't make it English."