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if they want government to pay for college then government should decide what is worthy of being paid for and how much. after all that is the attitude with reg

if they want government to pay for college then government should decide what is worthy of being paid for and how much. after all that is the attitude with regards to medical care. However I feel a better solution is for the government to still do it as loans but set the rates and required classes for each degree type. simply put there are valueless degree programs out there which only enrich the schools. Colleges would still trip over themselves to offer class and degree programs to fit into these restrictions, those that don't could rely on the private market, endowments, and scholarship programs.

vharuck 7y ago
I don't like the idea that only career-focused degrees are important. I studied math not to get a job with those skills, but because I enjoyed math and wanted to add to the world's knowledge. Money is a means to quality of life, sure. But you can't ignore the things that are part of the "quality" because they're not profitable.
- magduf 7y ago
  Math isn't a non-career-focused degree. It's not as immediately applicable as engineering, sure, but it does lead pretty directly to good-paying jobs. What the OP is referring to is probably degrees such as theater, women's studies, philosophy, etc. Women's studies and philosophy have no real job potential, and while theater might, there's only a very small market for actors compared to the number of starlets who dream of that job, which is why LA is so full of "actors" working as restaurant waiters.
  - mywittyname 7y ago
    Pure maths is a non-career degree. Much like physics, philosophy, and history, the intent of most programs is to produce teachers and researchers. It just turns out that math is incredibly useful in many disciplines, so knowing high-level math makes you clearly employable. Career-oriented math degrees are found in the engineering school. The difference between math and philosophy is that having a pure maths degree will provide someone with a number of job prospects. But that isn't really the intent of math programs. I venture to guess most people studying math are like the GP and doing so because they enjoy math.
    - magduf 7y ago
      >The difference between math and philosophy is that having a pure maths degree will provide someone with a number of job prospects. But that isn't really the intent of math programs. I realize this, but the reality, as you stated yourself, is that it really does make you employable. The intent doesn't matter; the actual employability the degree confers does. Theater degrees are basically the opposite here. The goal of that degree is surely to produce people who can act on stage (and have it transferrable to TV/movies too I suppose), but the reality is that it isn't very employable because there just aren't many job openings in that field compared to the number of people who want to work in it. The intent doesn't matter if you're in control of allocating money for degrees for prospective students; the only thing that matters is how likely those borrowers will be to pay back their loans, or if this is a grant (i.e. free university), how likely this investment will be to produce someone who will pay back society with taxes. A degree that has a very poor likelihood of leading to a decent-paying job is not a good investment from this point-of-view, and the "intent" of that degree is irrelevant.
- ultrasaurus 7y ago
  I also have a math degree. If the prevailing model of a university education is to give you career skills that you'll use, well ok, I maybe use 10% of it. But if you think of a degree as purely a signaling mechanism, then a pure math (or astrophysics or latin or whatever) degree is a very clear signal about what your brain is capable of.

vharuck 7y ago

I don't like the idea that only career-focused degrees are important. I studied math not to get a job with those skills, but because I enjoyed math and wanted to add to the world's knowledge. Money is a means to quality of life, sure. But you can't ignore the things that are part of the "quality" because they're not profitable.

magduf 7y ago
Math isn't a non-career-focused degree. It's not as immediately applicable as engineering, sure, but it does lead pretty directly to good-paying jobs. What the OP is referring to is probably degrees such as theater, women's studies, philosophy, etc. Women's studies and philosophy have no real job potential, and while theater might, there's only a very small market for actors compared to the number of starlets who dream of that job, which is why LA is so full of "actors" working as restaurant waiters.
- mywittyname 7y ago
  Pure maths is a non-career degree. Much like physics, philosophy, and history, the intent of most programs is to produce teachers and researchers. It just turns out that math is incredibly useful in many disciplines, so knowing high-level math makes you clearly employable. Career-oriented math degrees are found in the engineering school. The difference between math and philosophy is that having a pure maths degree will provide someone with a number of job prospects. But that isn't really the intent of math programs. I venture to guess most people studying math are like the GP and doing so because they enjoy math.
  - magduf 7y ago
    >The difference between math and philosophy is that having a pure maths degree will provide someone with a number of job prospects. But that isn't really the intent of math programs. I realize this, but the reality, as you stated yourself, is that it really does make you employable. The intent doesn't matter; the actual employability the degree confers does. Theater degrees are basically the opposite here. The goal of that degree is surely to produce people who can act on stage (and have it transferrable to TV/movies too I suppose), but the reality is that it isn't very employable because there just aren't many job openings in that field compared to the number of people who want to work in it. The intent doesn't matter if you're in control of allocating money for degrees for prospective students; the only thing that matters is how likely those borrowers will be to pay back their loans, or if this is a grant (i.e. free university), how likely this investment will be to produce someone who will pay back society with taxes. A degree that has a very poor likelihood of leading to a decent-paying job is not a good investment from this point-of-view, and the "intent" of that degree is irrelevant.
ultrasaurus 7y ago
I also have a math degree. If the prevailing model of a university education is to give you career skills that you'll use, well ok, I maybe use 10% of it. But if you think of a degree as purely a signaling mechanism, then a pure math (or astrophysics or latin or whatever) degree is a very clear signal about what your brain is capable of.