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> The dept of education needs to treat universities the same way Medicaid treats healthcare providers. Determine what it actually costs per student per year to

by zamfi 7y ago

> The dept of education needs to treat universities the same way Medicaid treats healthcare providers. Determine what it actually costs per student per year to run a university, and tell the schools "Accept $x or shove off". If they're going to benefit from gov backed loans, they should play by the govs rules. This sounds appealing, but healthcare and education are different in some fundamental ways. People (generally) don't end up in the hospital, on Medicaid, by choice. So there is a moral argument to be made in regulating pricing to avoid the exploitation of sick people who need medical care to survive, by capping prices for that care. But people do choose to attend Masters degree programs -- they aren't forced to by circumstances outside their own control. The moral argument for preventing exploitation by capping price is much weaker compared with other avenues: transparency about outcomes, truth in advertising, required financial projections, etc. -- give people more data about what a Masters' degree is actually worth, and hopefully they'll make better choices. When you're in the back of an ambulance unconscious you are not able to make any choices, justifying societal intervention. In education, limiting the amount of loans available / backed by the government for a single individual would do just as much as artificially capping prices. (From the article: "there are no hard caps on how much someone can borrow for graduate school".) Let the crappy Masters' programs that aren't worth it get exposed and lose enrollment. By capping prices you're implicitly also saying that every Masters' program that charges this much is worth this much, an implication that is very much false. The value of a degree is not really correlated with the cost to provide it -- why base the price on cost rather than value? (Plus, how would you even "determine what it actually costs per student per year to run a university"? This probably depends on a zillion factors like endowment, cost of living, faculty salaries -- and their alternative job prospects -- availability of land and housing, etc. Would you average it across the country? Good luck running a school in NYC or SFBA, then.) Telling a university how much it can charge for a Masters degree is like telling Tesla how much it can charge for the Model 3.

ghobs91 7y ago
If all people were buying Teslas using government-backed loans that the gov was then responsible to collect, while Tesla got paid up front and claimed to be a non-profit, they would absolutely have the right to tell them what they could charge. If a university is going to call itself non-profit, they should only be charging whatevers needed to cover costs of operating. Tuition has skyrocketed in the last 10-20 years, with no reasonable explanation for what aspect of operating costs has gone up enough to justify that.
- randomdata 7y ago
  > they should only be charging whatevers needed to cover costs of operating. Effectively that is the case. The problem is that when you have more to spend, your costs go up. You might opt to buy higher quality equipment, for example. But most especially, when you have more money to spend, your workers want to receive more money. A lot of the income gains that the colleges have seen have gone straight back out as administrative costs.
- zamfi 7y ago
  First, tuition and costs have both gone up for universities, and you can make up whatever costs you want. New sports facility? Part of the costs. 7-figure salaries for administrators? Part of the costs. How would you decide which costs are "reasonable" and which aren't? It's a real morass -- what you are suggesting, to be effective, would require government micromanagement of private education. Second, government already runs public education -- those institutions cost less, but costs have still gone up and tuition has still skyrocketed. Third, despite the fact that Medicaid does impose price caps, both the list price and costs for medical care have also skyrocketed. Explain again how price caps solve anything? Every market with price manipulation looks like a disaster. Housing (rent control) and medical care (medicaid & insurance payments are limited or contractually negotiated) are just two examples. I think what we want are not mandated prices, but mandated transparency in value, so that you know if the price is worth it!
ambicapter 7y ago
> But people do choose to attend Masters degree programs -- they aren't forced to by circumstances outside their own control. Really? You don't think the climbing housing and living prices and job hiring requirements have anything to do with more people pursuing a Master's degree?
- zamfi 7y ago
  Huh? People do things for all sorts of reasons, including pursuing a Masters' degree. Are you saying people are forced to get these degrees because housing is expensive and job requirements are increasing, in the same way that someone unconscious in an ambulance is forced to get medical care?

by zamfi 7y ago

ghobs91 7y ago

If all people were buying Teslas using government-backed loans that the gov was then responsible to collect, while Tesla got paid up front and claimed to be a non-profit, they would absolutely have the right to tell them what they could charge. If a university is going to call itself non-profit, they should only be charging whatevers needed to cover costs of operating. Tuition has skyrocketed in the last 10-20 years, with no reasonable explanation for what aspect of operating costs has gone up enough to justify that.

randomdata 7y ago
> they should only be charging whatevers needed to cover costs of operating. Effectively that is the case. The problem is that when you have more to spend, your costs go up. You might opt to buy higher quality equipment, for example. But most especially, when you have more money to spend, your workers want to receive more money. A lot of the income gains that the colleges have seen have gone straight back out as administrative costs.
zamfi 7y ago
First, tuition and costs have both gone up for universities, and you can make up whatever costs you want. New sports facility? Part of the costs. 7-figure salaries for administrators? Part of the costs. How would you decide which costs are "reasonable" and which aren't? It's a real morass -- what you are suggesting, to be effective, would require government micromanagement of private education. Second, government already runs public education -- those institutions cost less, but costs have still gone up and tuition has still skyrocketed. Third, despite the fact that Medicaid does impose price caps, both the list price and costs for medical care have also skyrocketed. Explain again how price caps solve anything? Every market with price manipulation looks like a disaster. Housing (rent control) and medical care (medicaid & insurance payments are limited or contractually negotiated) are just two examples. I think what we want are not mandated prices, but mandated transparency in value, so that you know if the price is worth it!

ambicapter 7y ago

> But people do choose to attend Masters degree programs -- they aren't forced to by circumstances outside their own control. Really? You don't think the climbing housing and living prices and job hiring requirements have anything to do with more people pursuing a Master's degree?

zamfi 7y ago
Huh? People do things for all sorts of reasons, including pursuing a Masters' degree. Are you saying people are forced to get these degrees because housing is expensive and job requirements are increasing, in the same way that someone unconscious in an ambulance is forced to get medical care?