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> Its propellers have a slight S-curve designed to lower their noise to make them more acceptable for use in populated neighborhoods, Kimchi said. The craft is

> Its propellers have a slight S-curve designed to lower their noise to make them more acceptable for use in populated neighborhoods, Kimchi said. The craft is far more stable in high winds than more traditional drones, he said. Noise is my main concern with drone delivery networks. I have been playing with radio controlled aircraft for most of my life. I see drone delivery as inevitable, but living near a noisy drone delivery route could really lower quality of life for the people on the ground.

vkou 7y ago
> Noise is my main concern with drone delivery networks. What about 20-50 lb flying machines falling onto sidewalks, roofs, and streets? You don't see amateur RC aviation enthusiasts flying their model airplanes in the middle of the city, and I sure as hell don't want to see a corporation doing this on an industrial scale. Why not ground-based drone delivery?
- jagger27 7y ago
  Not to mention people's heads! I have faith in agencies like the FAA to keep things safe and reasonable, and where that isn't enough NIMBYs and municipal governments will pick up the slack, no doubt.
  - derekp7 7y ago
    > I have faith in agencies like the FAA to keep things safe Has this faith been shaken by the recent 737 Max issues?
    - patrick5415 7y ago
      No. Air travel is still incredibly safe, a few high profile accidents notwithstanding.
- throwaway5752 7y ago
  Why are you downvoted? Safety is a thousand times more concerning - the drones will mechanically fail, they will hit bad weather, they will collide with birds, there will be new drone delivery market entrants and will need coordination across systems... If a drone fails at an expected operating altitude, it can kill someone easily on the ground. If it fails at height over a highway, what if it kills a bus driver or causes a tractor trailer to lose control? What if they hit electric lines? What else can go in flight corridors at the same altitudes? Do they container chemicals or voltages that first responders have to be aware of?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - zjaffee 7y ago
    There's a reason why it's taking so long for Amazon to get FAA approval for drone delivery and this is exactly why. There are people in important places asking these sorts of questions already. My guess personally, is that drone delivery will ultimately just be a tool for a self driving truck to get the package from the truck to the door. Drones are not nearly good enough as it stands today to do end to end deliveries at an industrial scale outside of maybe a few rural areas.
    - greenburger 7y ago
      The same people in important places that approved the 737 Max?
      - BrandonMarc 7y ago
        Yes ... so they have experience in crashing planes, which is relevant. /s
      - pwinnski 7y ago
        In the sense that they are human, yes. Even in the sense that they work for the government, which narrows the pool to 20,000,000+ But also, no. Not the same people.
- buu700 7y ago
  Interesting point. Maybe instead we should be using self-driving cars with drones (or something ground-based, like RC skateboards) only handling moving packages from the car to the door.
  - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
    This exists: https://nuro.ai/ https://nuro.ai/
- joshvm 7y ago
  This probably isn't for cities. I was at a conference a few years back where Prime Air gave a talk. It was quite a vague talk, but admittedly it was hilarious watching Takeo Kanade grill the speaker on technical details that he refused to elaborate on. Things have no doubt moved on, but they were talking about use cases like delivering to rural areas where people have big gardens to land in. So potentially places where sending a delivery truck miles out of the way would be expensive (e.g. a 20 minute detour to one house). That's where the interesting applications of drone delivery are. That drone is pretty big, and they're getting extra lift out of the wings which conveniently double as prop guards. Flight time is presumably at least an hour, if it can get something to a customer in half an hour (and has to get back). You'd need quite a few since each drone can therefore only make around 10-20 deliveries a day if they swap out the batteries when it lands. 30 mile round trip range is pretty decent. Also on size - you need somewhere to land it with a few metres wriggle room either side. There's no way that's going into a built up area. There's no point doing drone delivery in urban environments, the safety case is insane and you're competing with excellent existing delivery channels.
- megablast 7y ago
  It can't be worse than the cars and trucks it will replace, which kill 40,000 people every single year in the USA alone.
  - vkou 7y ago
    How many people do Amazon delivery drivers kill/year? Pretty sure it's not 40,000.
bongobongo 7y ago
My main concern is the audio and video recording devices that will undoubtedly be attached to these drones (if history is any guide, likely without any disclosure). I foresee ads for rakes when Amazon notices that there are lots of leaves in my yard. I don't know why people think this is a good thing right now.
- dzhiurgis 7y ago
  How about just force-delivering a rake with free return?
  - pwinnski 7y ago
    I admire the way you think. It's horrifying, and disturbing, but I still admire it.
- cagenut 7y ago
  this is coming, if not already here, from satellites anyway
- drusepth 7y ago
  My first thought was "well, maybe you do need a rake". But I guess it probably can't see into your shed/garage/etc to know whether you actually have a rake or not. Ads for things you already have are such a waste.
  - bongobongo 7y ago
    God forbid I exist for a moment without being bombarded with offers to buy products. I would gladly trade the inconvenience of not being immediately aware of rake-buying opportunities for privacy and peace of mind.
- trophycase 7y ago
  So I can get my useless bullshit faster and cheaper!
idlewords 7y ago
You are right that this thing is going to be noisy as hell. I can say this without having heard it because basic physics makes hovering craft with little propellers impossible to make quiet. Welcome to the new world of a flying buzzsaw delivering your neighbor's toothpaste at 7 AM. No wonder they chose to play classical music over this video.
- bluedino 7y ago
  It'll be quieter than a UPS truck, that's for sure.
  - MikeTheGreat 7y ago
    Yeah, but if I have enough money/income (which is a big caveat, I know) then I can have some control over the location of the UPS truck by virtue of living someplace not too close to a road. When was the last time a UPS truck drove over your house / apartment / etc?
    - dillonmckay 7y ago
      Properties owners have rights up to 500 ft from the base of the property (trespass), but this has not been litigated yet.
      - MikeTheGreat 7y ago
        I did not know that. Noise-wise that's reassuring. Mind if I ask where the law comes from? I'm assuming that you're talking about the United States - is this a federal/state/local law?
        dgacmu 7y ago
        This article has more details (and notes that it's been tested legally at 83 feet): https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/07/photographer-george-steinmetz-arrest-how-much-airspace-do-you-own.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/news-and-politics/201...
gist 7y ago
> I have been playing with radio controlled aircraft for most of my life RC Helis 60 Size Gas back in the old days. You had to manually control everything. You had to built it from scratch. [1] The ones they have now are so simple and easy they are no fun at all. I wonder if you feel the same way? I am still not getting how this is possible given weather conditions and variability. [1] Electric? Only thing like that I ever saw was at the hobby shop (remember those) and it had a power cord attached and was plugged into an extension cord and being tested out back.
- castis 7y ago
  > You had to build it from scratch Thats exactly what I'm trying to do here (sort of), I'm like 2 years in on the project and I've only just begun to actually test the thing. https://github.com/castis/currant https://github.com/castis/currant
binthere 7y ago
Not to mention the visual pollution it may cause. I honestly don't think this is going to fly pun intended.
shostack 7y ago
In addition to noise, I'm also concerned about visual clutter, particularly in residential areas. The last thing I want is to add to the power lines, airplanes, etc. with the visual noise when I'm on my deck trying to enjoy nature. Further, Amazon is a major player in the advertising space now. I'd be surprised if at some point these weren't leveraged to display ads in some format. I'm a marketer by trade, but personally that's a line I don't want crossed.
- rayiner 7y ago
  If there is a deck there you probably can’t see nature anyway.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  I'm also concerned about visual clutter, particularly in residential areas Then don't look up in a couple of years when SpaceX has HUNDREDS of satellites ruining the night sky. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/science/starlink-spacex-astronomers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/science/starlink-spacex-a...
- megablast 7y ago
  Ha, but once again you have no problem with ugly roads, cars and trucks? Ok.
  - roscorollo 7y ago
    Cars, roads and trucks have been around for a century, and none of us were around to discuss that. Also now we have a century worth of experience to apply to deciding to add new vehicles to our environment. And finally for the most part cars, trucks etc are primarily fixed routes - roads. We know where they are, there's planning and committees around design and disruption before they are set in place. Drones move in a 3 dimensional space, with no set routes, and very few no fly zones. Basically imagine a moped that can fly over your property or circle where you live looking for an address. Not to even mention the privacy issues, most cars are still lacking in cameras, or scanning technology. Delivery drones will need that stuff to be standard.
megablast 7y ago
You don't have an issue with living near a noisy road with trucks driving down it though? I don't understand that.

vkou 7y ago

> Noise is my main concern with drone delivery networks. What about 20-50 lb flying machines falling onto sidewalks, roofs, and streets? You don't see amateur RC aviation enthusiasts flying their model airplanes in the middle of the city, and I sure as hell don't want to see a corporation doing this on an industrial scale. Why not ground-based drone delivery?

jagger27 7y ago
Not to mention people's heads! I have faith in agencies like the FAA to keep things safe and reasonable, and where that isn't enough NIMBYs and municipal governments will pick up the slack, no doubt.
- derekp7 7y ago
  > I have faith in agencies like the FAA to keep things safe Has this faith been shaken by the recent 737 Max issues?
  - patrick5415 7y ago
    No. Air travel is still incredibly safe, a few high profile accidents notwithstanding.
throwaway5752 7y ago
Why are you downvoted? Safety is a thousand times more concerning - the drones will mechanically fail, they will hit bad weather, they will collide with birds, there will be new drone delivery market entrants and will need coordination across systems... If a drone fails at an expected operating altitude, it can kill someone easily on the ground. If it fails at height over a highway, what if it kills a bus driver or causes a tractor trailer to lose control? What if they hit electric lines? What else can go in flight corridors at the same altitudes? Do they container chemicals or voltages that first responders have to be aware of?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- zjaffee 7y ago
  There's a reason why it's taking so long for Amazon to get FAA approval for drone delivery and this is exactly why. There are people in important places asking these sorts of questions already. My guess personally, is that drone delivery will ultimately just be a tool for a self driving truck to get the package from the truck to the door. Drones are not nearly good enough as it stands today to do end to end deliveries at an industrial scale outside of maybe a few rural areas.
  - greenburger 7y ago
    The same people in important places that approved the 737 Max?
    - BrandonMarc 7y ago
      Yes ... so they have experience in crashing planes, which is relevant. /s
    - pwinnski 7y ago
      In the sense that they are human, yes. Even in the sense that they work for the government, which narrows the pool to 20,000,000+ But also, no. Not the same people.
buu700 7y ago
Interesting point. Maybe instead we should be using self-driving cars with drones (or something ground-based, like RC skateboards) only handling moving packages from the car to the door.
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  This exists: https://nuro.ai/ https://nuro.ai/
joshvm 7y ago
This probably isn't for cities. I was at a conference a few years back where Prime Air gave a talk. It was quite a vague talk, but admittedly it was hilarious watching Takeo Kanade grill the speaker on technical details that he refused to elaborate on. Things have no doubt moved on, but they were talking about use cases like delivering to rural areas where people have big gardens to land in. So potentially places where sending a delivery truck miles out of the way would be expensive (e.g. a 20 minute detour to one house). That's where the interesting applications of drone delivery are. That drone is pretty big, and they're getting extra lift out of the wings which conveniently double as prop guards. Flight time is presumably at least an hour, if it can get something to a customer in half an hour (and has to get back). You'd need quite a few since each drone can therefore only make around 10-20 deliveries a day if they swap out the batteries when it lands. 30 mile round trip range is pretty decent. Also on size - you need somewhere to land it with a few metres wriggle room either side. There's no way that's going into a built up area. There's no point doing drone delivery in urban environments, the safety case is insane and you're competing with excellent existing delivery channels.
megablast 7y ago
It can't be worse than the cars and trucks it will replace, which kill 40,000 people every single year in the USA alone.
- vkou 7y ago
  How many people do Amazon delivery drivers kill/year? Pretty sure it's not 40,000.

bongobongo 7y ago

My main concern is the audio and video recording devices that will undoubtedly be attached to these drones (if history is any guide, likely without any disclosure). I foresee ads for rakes when Amazon notices that there are lots of leaves in my yard. I don't know why people think this is a good thing right now.

dzhiurgis 7y ago
How about just force-delivering a rake with free return?
- pwinnski 7y ago
  I admire the way you think. It's horrifying, and disturbing, but I still admire it.
cagenut 7y ago
this is coming, if not already here, from satellites anyway
drusepth 7y ago
My first thought was "well, maybe you do need a rake". But I guess it probably can't see into your shed/garage/etc to know whether you actually have a rake or not. Ads for things you already have are such a waste.
- bongobongo 7y ago
  God forbid I exist for a moment without being bombarded with offers to buy products. I would gladly trade the inconvenience of not being immediately aware of rake-buying opportunities for privacy and peace of mind.
trophycase 7y ago
So I can get my useless bullshit faster and cheaper!

idlewords 7y ago

You are right that this thing is going to be noisy as hell. I can say this without having heard it because basic physics makes hovering craft with little propellers impossible to make quiet. Welcome to the new world of a flying buzzsaw delivering your neighbor's toothpaste at 7 AM. No wonder they chose to play classical music over this video.

bluedino 7y ago
It'll be quieter than a UPS truck, that's for sure.
- MikeTheGreat 7y ago
  Yeah, but if I have enough money/income (which is a big caveat, I know) then I can have some control over the location of the UPS truck by virtue of living someplace not too close to a road. When was the last time a UPS truck drove over your house / apartment / etc?
  - dillonmckay 7y ago
    Properties owners have rights up to 500 ft from the base of the property (trespass), but this has not been litigated yet.
    - MikeTheGreat 7y ago
      I did not know that. Noise-wise that's reassuring. Mind if I ask where the law comes from? I'm assuming that you're talking about the United States - is this a federal/state/local law?
      - dgacmu 7y ago
        This article has more details (and notes that it's been tested legally at 83 feet): https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/07/photographer-george-steinmetz-arrest-how-much-airspace-do-you-own.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/news-and-politics/201...

gist 7y ago

> I have been playing with radio controlled aircraft for most of my life RC Helis 60 Size Gas back in the old days. You had to manually control everything. You had to built it from scratch. [1] The ones they have now are so simple and easy they are no fun at all. I wonder if you feel the same way? I am still not getting how this is possible given weather conditions and variability. [1] Electric? Only thing like that I ever saw was at the hobby shop (remember those) and it had a power cord attached and was plugged into an extension cord and being tested out back.

castis 7y ago
> You had to build it from scratch Thats exactly what I'm trying to do here (sort of), I'm like 2 years in on the project and I've only just begun to actually test the thing. https://github.com/castis/currant https://github.com/castis/currant

binthere 7y ago

Not to mention the visual pollution it may cause. I honestly don't think this is going to fly pun intended.

shostack 7y ago

In addition to noise, I'm also concerned about visual clutter, particularly in residential areas. The last thing I want is to add to the power lines, airplanes, etc. with the visual noise when I'm on my deck trying to enjoy nature. Further, Amazon is a major player in the advertising space now. I'd be surprised if at some point these weren't leveraged to display ads in some format. I'm a marketer by trade, but personally that's a line I don't want crossed.

rayiner 7y ago
If there is a deck there you probably can’t see nature anyway.
reaperducer 7y ago
I'm also concerned about visual clutter, particularly in residential areas Then don't look up in a couple of years when SpaceX has HUNDREDS of satellites ruining the night sky. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/science/starlink-spacex-astronomers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/science/starlink-spacex-a...
megablast 7y ago
Ha, but once again you have no problem with ugly roads, cars and trucks? Ok.
- roscorollo 7y ago
  Cars, roads and trucks have been around for a century, and none of us were around to discuss that. Also now we have a century worth of experience to apply to deciding to add new vehicles to our environment. And finally for the most part cars, trucks etc are primarily fixed routes - roads. We know where they are, there's planning and committees around design and disruption before they are set in place. Drones move in a 3 dimensional space, with no set routes, and very few no fly zones. Basically imagine a moped that can fly over your property or circle where you live looking for an address. Not to even mention the privacy issues, most cars are still lacking in cameras, or scanning technology. Delivery drones will need that stuff to be standard.

megablast 7y ago

You don't have an issue with living near a noisy road with trucks driving down it though? I don't understand that.