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White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century. A white nationalist uprising in Europe would be deadlier (again) than Islamic extremists t

White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century. A white nationalist uprising in Europe would be deadlier (again) than Islamic extremists taking over most middle eastern nations due to the resources that will be available to them.

chrisjc 7y ago
> White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century Again, I think that statement is shaped by your perspective. I imagine a lot of Russian, Chinese and Africans would disagree with you about that.
- gaogao 7y ago
  If you recognize that racial supremacy goes hand-in-hand with the imperialistic expansionism of Nazi Germany and Japan, I think it's fairly apt descriptor of one of the major causes of the war.
  - chrisjc 7y ago
    bait and switch
    - IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
      Are you seriously denying that Nazis were motivated by ideology of racial supremacy?
      - chrisjc 7y ago
        The parent assertion was "White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century"... gaogao switch the convo to "racial supremacy". Not to say that it doesn't have something to do with wars of the 20th century. It might even be seen that by making this switch and excluding non-imperialistic wars, we would be minimizing the atrocities and war crimes committed in Africa and the rest of the third world against native populations. > Are you seriously denying that Nazis were motivated by ideology of racial supremacy? I'm not even going to acknowledge this statement. How on earth did you made this cognitive leap?
- gamblor956 7y ago
  White Supremacy was a key platform of the Nazi Party, which initiated World War II. Their definition of "white" including most of Western Europe but essentially none of Eastern Europe. While Slavs and Russians were better than the Roma (aka Gypsies) or Jews in Nazi eyes, they were accorded a lesser status than Germans or other Western Europeans. In absolute terms, more Russians died as a result of Nazi action than any other group. This is not a matter of perspective. This is what actually happened.
  - chrisjc 7y ago
    > In absolute terms, more Russians died as a result of Nazi action than any other group. Who's disputing this fact? Not me.
creaghpatr 7y ago
>A white nationalist uprising in Europe would be deadlier (again) than Islamic extremists taking over most middle eastern nations due to the resources that will be available to them. Reckless speculation considering the latter did happen. You're fearmongering in order to drive censorship and oppression of viewpoints you disagree with.
- vowelless 7y ago
  Yes I disagree with white nationalism. And Islamic extremism. I don’t buy your point :). Islamic jihadis do control a few middle eastern nations. But they are quite powerless in front of the west. Even having access to natural resources like oil doesn’t protect the extremists (do I even need to give examples?). The most concerning Islamic state is Pakistan as it has nukes. But if far right folks take over Austria or Germany again, or other European states or Russia or the US, they will control massive economies, WMDs and have the ability for complete domination in a way never seen before. Let’s just say it is better to be in control of any European nation as opposed to Libya, Syria, Iraq or Iran.
  - low_roar1 7y ago
    > But they are quite powerless in front of the west. They are powerful enough to kill more than a hundred people in Paris, France the same night or thousands the same day in US. Your double standard is unhealthy, they are as much as a threat that any other extremist movement as the Muslim population increases in the west so does their influence. And just like white supremacists they see themselves as victim, of this or that, and a bunch of western politicians are buying into that victimhood complex. They certainly have more power than you are willing to admit. And they don't care about our petty political fights and partisanship, cause they are religious extremists and don't believe in western petty political games, no matter the political side. You should read "The management of savagery".
- gamblor956 7y ago
  How is he fearmongering? A white nationalist uprising is quite literally relatively recent European history, and resulted in the torture and slaughter of tens of millions. Before Al Queda, the West's biggest fear was domestic white nationalist terrorists like Timothy McVeigh. EDIT: It's very disturbing that so many people don't understand what the Nazi platform was all about. The supremacy of the "Aryan Race" was literally a platform of the Nazi party from the beginning. The subjugation of Jews was a part of the party platform from the beginning. The use of paramilitary squads to enforce ideological purity was a part of the party from the beginning. And it just got worse from there.
0815test 7y ago
"White supremacy" wasn't involved in either WW1 or WW2. And "a white nationalist uprising in Europe" is a contradiction in terms, since Europeans do not in any way identify with a "white nation" of any sort. This whole "rah rah whites" stuff is something that people in the U.S. came up with during the Progressive Era, as a supposedly-'unifying' alternative to national/ethnic identities, some of which were quite openly "disfavored" by that time especially wrt. Central Europe. (Again, WW1 was a non-trivial factor there.) People outside the Anglo world generally think of it as quite silly and misguided, not to mention racist.
- nailer 7y ago
  I’m not sure why this is being down voted, 'white' is very much an American concept. British people are not French people are not Hungarians are not Greeks are not Italians are not Spanish people. We're Europeans, but we have very distinct and different cultures and we don't regard ourselves as 'whites' - it's rare (outside radical left circles) for Europeans to speak that way. The native people of most Mediterranean regions - Spain, Southern France, Italy, Greece and Turkey don't have pale skin - it would be odd to speak of 'whites'.
  - biogewuerz 7y ago
    The "white people" concept is increasingly gaining popularity in Europe and especially among the European far-right though. This is due to the massive influx of non-European migrants over the past decades, which makes the racial divisions much more visible.
    - darkpuma 7y ago
      Huh, the overwhelming majority that I've personally witnessed is Anglo/British shitting on Polish immigrants.
      - nailer 7y ago
        Likewise - there's either concern about competition from eastern Europeans (who are as pale as Brits are), or the increase in Islamic terrorism (which is obviously a religious concern rather than a racial one). Both are not advocating any kind of racial supremacy but rather self-interest, and - like them or not - relatively common as judged by recent election results.
baud147258 7y ago
> White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century Which ones? Both WW were caused by political disputes and nationalist views
- idlewords 7y ago
  The secret lizard wars The Man won't teach you about in school. Check out my YouTube channel.
lugg 7y ago
What do you mean white supremacy was the cause for WW1/2? Edit, this is an honest question. It's my impression these wars were caused by nationalist movements. The first didn't even involve "whites" until later and it certainly had nothing to do with white supremacy. The second world war got very white supremacy eventually but again, zero fucks to do with the cause. Hell America turned a blind eye to ALL of it until they got dragged in, that's how little it had to do with anything. (Not some gun toting denier nazi here, it happened it was disturbing as fuck and it was a big deal, but please don't run around claiming this made up narrative)
ctlby 7y ago
Leftism was the cause of the worst crimes of the 20th century (whose death tolls wildly exceed even that of WWII). The real tail risk resides in views that are considered perfectly respectable.
- iaeqi 7y ago
  Wow just wow. Yikes, another antisemitic hate crime comment today here on HN. Vile.
- ChristianBundy 7y ago
  Just wait until you see the death tolls of capitalism in general.
  - ctlby 7y ago
    Capitalism only "kills" people in a counterfactual sense. For example, you might posit that, had society gone out of its way to provide medical care to a sick individual, that person still would be alive. But that counterfactual is actually pretty complicated; it requires long chains of causation and dubious moral assumptions. Communism kills in a very real sense: it literally murders by the million and creates deadly privation where there was previously none.
  - smsm42 7y ago
    That would require the capitalism to end, so I hope we never get to see that. And considering that the only realistic scenario of ending capitalism before any of the people reading this are dead is world takeover by China - you probably hope that too, once you think about it.
DuskStar 7y ago
> White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century. I'm not sure this is accurate. Perhaps you could say that racial supremacy justified some of the worst wars of the 20th century, but "germans are better than slavs" barely pattern matches to "white supremacy", and "japanese are better than koreans/chinese/etc" doesn't at all. As for justified vs caused... There's a fine line to be drawn here, but I think it's worth drawing. Would Germany and Japan have gone to war without views of racial superiority? Quite possibly. Both were in rather poor strategic situations in the 1920s, and war was an acceptable way to resolve that at the time. Would they have poked the world's largest powers with a stick without that superiority to fall back on? Perhaps not.
HBKXNCUO 7y ago
If you're concerned about a white nationalist uprising, it seems to me that you must believe one of the following things. Either: A) White nationalism is not in the interests of white people (perhaps because there is no such thing as white interests), but a very substantial number of white people are too stupid or immoral to come to that conclusion if allowed to discuss politics freely, and must be fed curated information to prevent them from falling under its spell, or B) White nationalism is in the interests of white people, but we should stop them from persuing those interests for some other reason, or perhaps C) Some other thing I haven't thought of. Which is it?
Veen 7y ago
This is historically illiterate. WW1 was a war between Imperial powers both sides of which were entirely white. WWII was caused by a German supremicist movement opposed to all non-Germans — it’s not as if the Polish are non-white. White supremacism is supported by a fraction of a percentage of white Europeans. Support for Islamic fundamentalism is substantially higher in the Muslim world. (Plenty of Europeans are opposed to large scale immigration, but you’re not conflating that with white supremicism are you?)
smsm42 7y ago
You should brush up on your history. First World War had nothing to do with "white supremacy" - every side whose opposition led to it was lily white, Germans, French, Belgians, Russians, British, Sebrians, whoever you point to - they where white. It was a very complex tangle of reasons that led to the war, but "white supremacy" had zero to do with it. Second Word War, as we all know, has been mostly led by Nazis, who were, among other things, undoubtedly very very racist. However, even then they gladly paired with Japanese - most definitely not "white", Arabs - not really considered "white" by most Nazis - to achieve their goals. And they had absolutely no problem suppressing and massacring Eastern Europeans (very "white") when it suited them. Their goal was, ultimately, world domination under the aegis of the Nazi party, and their "white supremacy" was mostly "Nazi supremacy" - if you were white but not agreeing with Nazis, you were dead. So it was a standard totalitarian approach, which is no different in any totalitarian regime, racism notwithstanding. Nazis where definitely racial supremacists (though just "white" didn't go nearly far enough for them) but even if they weren't, it would end up in the same way. And as history teaches us, totalitarian regimes like to expand, if they can, and cause wars, if they have resources for it (fortunately, North Korea has none, but even then they are trying to provoke something constantly). > A white nationalist uprising in Europe would be deadlier There is no white nationalist movement in Europe even close to pulling something like this off. In fact, I don't think there's even one serious "white" nationalist movement in Europe at all - most nationalist parties are specifically "nationally" nationalists - e.g. French nationalists, British nationalists, Hungarian nationalists, etc. and they couldn't care less about other "whites" as soon as they aren't French, British or Hungarian. Of course, racial movements exist too, but again - they are minuscule compared to nation-based movements. OTOH, ISIS has already pulled off a major war in Middle East, and while it fortunately looks like they're ending up on the losing side now, it already cost major loss in life and economic damage, and it is very far from the end. Taliban in Afghanistan is far from being beaten too. They are massively in force right now, while "white nationalist uprising" is nothing but an extremely unlikely hypothetical.
exolymph 7y ago
Communists slaughtered more people than Nazis (of course, not due to any virtue of the Nazis). Also, the current geopolitical situation is very different from the early or mid 1900s.

chrisjc 7y ago

> White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century Again, I think that statement is shaped by your perspective. I imagine a lot of Russian, Chinese and Africans would disagree with you about that.

gaogao 7y ago
If you recognize that racial supremacy goes hand-in-hand with the imperialistic expansionism of Nazi Germany and Japan, I think it's fairly apt descriptor of one of the major causes of the war.
- chrisjc 7y ago
  bait and switch
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
    Are you seriously denying that Nazis were motivated by ideology of racial supremacy?
    - chrisjc 7y ago
      The parent assertion was "White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century"... gaogao switch the convo to "racial supremacy". Not to say that it doesn't have something to do with wars of the 20th century. It might even be seen that by making this switch and excluding non-imperialistic wars, we would be minimizing the atrocities and war crimes committed in Africa and the rest of the third world against native populations. > Are you seriously denying that Nazis were motivated by ideology of racial supremacy? I'm not even going to acknowledge this statement. How on earth did you made this cognitive leap?
gamblor956 7y ago
White Supremacy was a key platform of the Nazi Party, which initiated World War II. Their definition of "white" including most of Western Europe but essentially none of Eastern Europe. While Slavs and Russians were better than the Roma (aka Gypsies) or Jews in Nazi eyes, they were accorded a lesser status than Germans or other Western Europeans. In absolute terms, more Russians died as a result of Nazi action than any other group. This is not a matter of perspective. This is what actually happened.
- chrisjc 7y ago
  > In absolute terms, more Russians died as a result of Nazi action than any other group. Who's disputing this fact? Not me.

creaghpatr 7y ago

>A white nationalist uprising in Europe would be deadlier (again) than Islamic extremists taking over most middle eastern nations due to the resources that will be available to them. Reckless speculation considering the latter did happen. You're fearmongering in order to drive censorship and oppression of viewpoints you disagree with.

vowelless 7y ago
Yes I disagree with white nationalism. And Islamic extremism. I don’t buy your point :). Islamic jihadis do control a few middle eastern nations. But they are quite powerless in front of the west. Even having access to natural resources like oil doesn’t protect the extremists (do I even need to give examples?). The most concerning Islamic state is Pakistan as it has nukes. But if far right folks take over Austria or Germany again, or other European states or Russia or the US, they will control massive economies, WMDs and have the ability for complete domination in a way never seen before. Let’s just say it is better to be in control of any European nation as opposed to Libya, Syria, Iraq or Iran.
- low_roar1 7y ago
  > But they are quite powerless in front of the west. They are powerful enough to kill more than a hundred people in Paris, France the same night or thousands the same day in US. Your double standard is unhealthy, they are as much as a threat that any other extremist movement as the Muslim population increases in the west so does their influence. And just like white supremacists they see themselves as victim, of this or that, and a bunch of western politicians are buying into that victimhood complex. They certainly have more power than you are willing to admit. And they don't care about our petty political fights and partisanship, cause they are religious extremists and don't believe in western petty political games, no matter the political side. You should read "The management of savagery".
gamblor956 7y ago
How is he fearmongering? A white nationalist uprising is quite literally relatively recent European history, and resulted in the torture and slaughter of tens of millions. Before Al Queda, the West's biggest fear was domestic white nationalist terrorists like Timothy McVeigh. EDIT: It's very disturbing that so many people don't understand what the Nazi platform was all about. The supremacy of the "Aryan Race" was literally a platform of the Nazi party from the beginning. The subjugation of Jews was a part of the party platform from the beginning. The use of paramilitary squads to enforce ideological purity was a part of the party from the beginning. And it just got worse from there.

0815test 7y ago

"White supremacy" wasn't involved in either WW1 or WW2. And "a white nationalist uprising in Europe" is a contradiction in terms, since Europeans do not in any way identify with a "white nation" of any sort. This whole "rah rah whites" stuff is something that people in the U.S. came up with during the Progressive Era, as a supposedly-'unifying' alternative to national/ethnic identities, some of which were quite openly "disfavored" by that time especially wrt. Central Europe. (Again, WW1 was a non-trivial factor there.) People outside the Anglo world generally think of it as quite silly and misguided, not to mention racist.

nailer 7y ago
I’m not sure why this is being down voted, 'white' is very much an American concept. British people are not French people are not Hungarians are not Greeks are not Italians are not Spanish people. We're Europeans, but we have very distinct and different cultures and we don't regard ourselves as 'whites' - it's rare (outside radical left circles) for Europeans to speak that way. The native people of most Mediterranean regions - Spain, Southern France, Italy, Greece and Turkey don't have pale skin - it would be odd to speak of 'whites'.
- biogewuerz 7y ago
  The "white people" concept is increasingly gaining popularity in Europe and especially among the European far-right though. This is due to the massive influx of non-European migrants over the past decades, which makes the racial divisions much more visible.
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    Huh, the overwhelming majority that I've personally witnessed is Anglo/British shitting on Polish immigrants.
    - nailer 7y ago
      Likewise - there's either concern about competition from eastern Europeans (who are as pale as Brits are), or the increase in Islamic terrorism (which is obviously a religious concern rather than a racial one). Both are not advocating any kind of racial supremacy but rather self-interest, and - like them or not - relatively common as judged by recent election results.

baud147258 7y ago

> White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century Which ones? Both WW were caused by political disputes and nationalist views

idlewords 7y ago
The secret lizard wars The Man won't teach you about in school. Check out my YouTube channel.

lugg 7y ago

What do you mean white supremacy was the cause for WW1/2? Edit, this is an honest question. It's my impression these wars were caused by nationalist movements. The first didn't even involve "whites" until later and it certainly had nothing to do with white supremacy. The second world war got very white supremacy eventually but again, zero fucks to do with the cause. Hell America turned a blind eye to ALL of it until they got dragged in, that's how little it had to do with anything. (Not some gun toting denier nazi here, it happened it was disturbing as fuck and it was a big deal, but please don't run around claiming this made up narrative)

ctlby 7y ago

Leftism was the cause of the worst crimes of the 20th century (whose death tolls wildly exceed even that of WWII). The real tail risk resides in views that are considered perfectly respectable.

iaeqi 7y ago
Wow just wow. Yikes, another antisemitic hate crime comment today here on HN. Vile.
ChristianBundy 7y ago
Just wait until you see the death tolls of capitalism in general.
- ctlby 7y ago
  Capitalism only "kills" people in a counterfactual sense. For example, you might posit that, had society gone out of its way to provide medical care to a sick individual, that person still would be alive. But that counterfactual is actually pretty complicated; it requires long chains of causation and dubious moral assumptions. Communism kills in a very real sense: it literally murders by the million and creates deadly privation where there was previously none.
- smsm42 7y ago
  That would require the capitalism to end, so I hope we never get to see that. And considering that the only realistic scenario of ending capitalism before any of the people reading this are dead is world takeover by China - you probably hope that too, once you think about it.

DuskStar 7y ago

> White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century. I'm not sure this is accurate. Perhaps you could say that racial supremacy justified some of the worst wars of the 20th century, but "germans are better than slavs" barely pattern matches to "white supremacy", and "japanese are better than koreans/chinese/etc" doesn't at all. As for justified vs caused... There's a fine line to be drawn here, but I think it's worth drawing. Would Germany and Japan have gone to war without views of racial superiority? Quite possibly. Both were in rather poor strategic situations in the 1920s, and war was an acceptable way to resolve that at the time. Would they have poked the world's largest powers with a stick without that superiority to fall back on? Perhaps not.

HBKXNCUO 7y ago

If you're concerned about a white nationalist uprising, it seems to me that you must believe one of the following things. Either: A) White nationalism is not in the interests of white people (perhaps because there is no such thing as white interests), but a very substantial number of white people are too stupid or immoral to come to that conclusion if allowed to discuss politics freely, and must be fed curated information to prevent them from falling under its spell, or B) White nationalism is in the interests of white people, but we should stop them from persuing those interests for some other reason, or perhaps C) Some other thing I haven't thought of. Which is it?

Veen 7y ago

This is historically illiterate. WW1 was a war between Imperial powers both sides of which were entirely white. WWII was caused by a German supremicist movement opposed to all non-Germans — it’s not as if the Polish are non-white. White supremacism is supported by a fraction of a percentage of white Europeans. Support for Islamic fundamentalism is substantially higher in the Muslim world. (Plenty of Europeans are opposed to large scale immigration, but you’re not conflating that with white supremicism are you?)

smsm42 7y ago

You should brush up on your history. First World War had nothing to do with "white supremacy" - every side whose opposition led to it was lily white, Germans, French, Belgians, Russians, British, Sebrians, whoever you point to - they where white. It was a very complex tangle of reasons that led to the war, but "white supremacy" had zero to do with it. Second Word War, as we all know, has been mostly led by Nazis, who were, among other things, undoubtedly very very racist. However, even then they gladly paired with Japanese - most definitely not "white", Arabs - not really considered "white" by most Nazis - to achieve their goals. And they had absolutely no problem suppressing and massacring Eastern Europeans (very "white") when it suited them. Their goal was, ultimately, world domination under the aegis of the Nazi party, and their "white supremacy" was mostly "Nazi supremacy" - if you were white but not agreeing with Nazis, you were dead. So it was a standard totalitarian approach, which is no different in any totalitarian regime, racism notwithstanding. Nazis where definitely racial supremacists (though just "white" didn't go nearly far enough for them) but even if they weren't, it would end up in the same way. And as history teaches us, totalitarian regimes like to expand, if they can, and cause wars, if they have resources for it (fortunately, North Korea has none, but even then they are trying to provoke something constantly). > A white nationalist uprising in Europe would be deadlier There is no white nationalist movement in Europe even close to pulling something like this off. In fact, I don't think there's even one serious "white" nationalist movement in Europe at all - most nationalist parties are specifically "nationally" nationalists - e.g. French nationalists, British nationalists, Hungarian nationalists, etc. and they couldn't care less about other "whites" as soon as they aren't French, British or Hungarian. Of course, racial movements exist too, but again - they are minuscule compared to nation-based movements. OTOH, ISIS has already pulled off a major war in Middle East, and while it fortunately looks like they're ending up on the losing side now, it already cost major loss in life and economic damage, and it is very far from the end. Taliban in Afghanistan is far from being beaten too. They are massively in force right now, while "white nationalist uprising" is nothing but an extremely unlikely hypothetical.

exolymph 7y ago

Communists slaughtered more people than Nazis (of course, not due to any virtue of the Nazis). Also, the current geopolitical situation is very different from the early or mid 1900s.