4 ms·

> I would be careful of the use of the word 'civilized' in this context. You're implying DRC and/or other African countries are uncivilized. Which is just not t

> I would be careful of the use of the word 'civilized' in this context. You're implying DRC and/or other African countries are uncivilized. Which is just not true. No, I stand by what I said and by the following definitions of the word "civilized", and never talked about "other African countries": > easy to manage or control; well organized or ordered: > having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc. Given the tragedy that has been going on for more than half a century in that part of the world, I couldn't care less about euphemisms and political correctness, they have not solved anything. The culture absolutely needs to evolve if locals want to survive Ebola, there is absolutely no way around it, I'm not a cultural relativist. It's a matter of life and death.

roboys 7y ago
Seems the "advanced cultures" tend to send their so called "civilized" companies into these regions and they historically have acted very uncivilized (in many cases worse than the local bush-people with no formal education). Wouldn't be suprising if ebola is being spread in Congo for the same reasons that HIV was spread by the apartheid South African government. Natural resources make our so called "civilized" do some almost subhuman things (remember many of the beneficiaries are US companies/shareholders).
- layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
  >HIV was spread by the apartheid South African government [citation needed]
  - roboys 7y ago
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/south-africa-apartheid-aids-saimr-plot-infect-hiv-virus-black-cold-case-hammarskj-ld-documentary-a8749176.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/south-africa...
  - edubs25 7y ago
    Even if that specific example is false, there is a rich and well sourced history of African Americans (and other marginalized groups) being used in medical experimentation in the US or by US organizations. Edit - my family (Cameroonian) almost 100% believes Ebola was either created or intentionally released by either Europe or the US as part of research or guerrilla warfare. There are no facts involved but it's a very common belief for people that grow up in the region.
edubs25 7y ago
> easy to manage or control; well organized or ordered: > having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc. So the US meets these characteristics by your logic but DRC does not? Have you traveled much in rural/poor US? Have you been to puerto rico? Are those areas equally uncivilized? Would you characterize south chicago as uncivilized as well? In anthropology (maybe specifically american anthropology), the descriptor 'civilized' was pretty much thrown out during their reformation (I think it was 1970s?). At best, today it's pretty much considered a coded term for 'not conforming to my view of what a society should look like'(aka it's ethnocentrically viewed as inferior). At worst, you can tie the usages of the descriptors 'barbaric' and 'civilized' back to the biological determinism and eugenics movements. >Given the tragedy that has been going on for more than half a century in that part of the world, I couldn't care less about euphemisms and political correctness, they have not solved anything. What tragedy? and which part of the world? DRC is not near Liberia or Guinea where the other more recent highly publicized Ebola outbreaks have been. Are you referring to the civil war in DRC? It's really complicated and at the end of the day has root causes that tie back to neocolonialism and colonialism constructs created by so-called civilized societies. I'm not trying to be politically correct. I wasn't even being all that critical of your original statement. I was trying to point out that word choice matters. While most of what you wrote originally is valid, my family (which is Cameroonian) would not listen to anything you had to say because you used the term 'civilized.' It would immediately shut down discourse.

roboys 7y ago

Seems the "advanced cultures" tend to send their so called "civilized" companies into these regions and they historically have acted very uncivilized (in many cases worse than the local bush-people with no formal education). Wouldn't be suprising if ebola is being spread in Congo for the same reasons that HIV was spread by the apartheid South African government. Natural resources make our so called "civilized" do some almost subhuman things (remember many of the beneficiaries are US companies/shareholders).

layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
>HIV was spread by the apartheid South African government [citation needed]
- roboys 7y ago
  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/south-africa-apartheid-aids-saimr-plot-infect-hiv-virus-black-cold-case-hammarskj-ld-documentary-a8749176.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/south-africa...
- edubs25 7y ago
  Even if that specific example is false, there is a rich and well sourced history of African Americans (and other marginalized groups) being used in medical experimentation in the US or by US organizations. Edit - my family (Cameroonian) almost 100% believes Ebola was either created or intentionally released by either Europe or the US as part of research or guerrilla warfare. There are no facts involved but it's a very common belief for people that grow up in the region.

edubs25 7y ago

> easy to manage or control; well organized or ordered: > having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc. So the US meets these characteristics by your logic but DRC does not? Have you traveled much in rural/poor US? Have you been to puerto rico? Are those areas equally uncivilized? Would you characterize south chicago as uncivilized as well? In anthropology (maybe specifically american anthropology), the descriptor 'civilized' was pretty much thrown out during their reformation (I think it was 1970s?). At best, today it's pretty much considered a coded term for 'not conforming to my view of what a society should look like'(aka it's ethnocentrically viewed as inferior). At worst, you can tie the usages of the descriptors 'barbaric' and 'civilized' back to the biological determinism and eugenics movements. >Given the tragedy that has been going on for more than half a century in that part of the world, I couldn't care less about euphemisms and political correctness, they have not solved anything. What tragedy? and which part of the world? DRC is not near Liberia or Guinea where the other more recent highly publicized Ebola outbreaks have been. Are you referring to the civil war in DRC? It's really complicated and at the end of the day has root causes that tie back to neocolonialism and colonialism constructs created by so-called civilized societies. I'm not trying to be politically correct. I wasn't even being all that critical of your original statement. I was trying to point out that word choice matters. While most of what you wrote originally is valid, my family (which is Cameroonian) would not listen to anything you had to say because you used the term 'civilized.' It would immediately shut down discourse.