4 ms·

Many herbicides are harmful in some way, but most are safe if used properly (i.e. respecting the correct dosage for each target, respecting the safety interval,

by chicob 7y ago

Many herbicides are harmful in some way, but most are safe if used properly (i.e. respecting the correct dosage for each target, respecting the safety interval, etc). Buying organic is not safer, though, because one can still use herbicides in organic farming, as long as they aren't synthetic. Sometimes the safer organic option won't be as safe as the synthetic one. Some herbicides are dangerous, and if safer solutions were available farmers would use them - if only their crops would survive that substance. That is one of the points of glyphosate-resistant varieties. Be it as it may, the danger will always be greater for farmers than consumers. Integrated Farming accounts for this as well, and the list of available pest management substances is constantly being updated. I don't know how well IF works in the US, but in the EU (Portugal) at least I get updates every now an then. I still use glyphosate and will keep using it for weed control. In an olive field, I use a shredder for most of the field, and leave herbicides for plantation lines only. This means that only about 30% of the total area is actually sprayed with herbicides in some orchards. I'd reserve the ban on allegedly dangerous substances for personal use. And I would start with home spray insecticides.

jMyles 7y ago
> Buying organic is not safer, though, because one can still use herbicides in organic farming, as long as they aren't synthetic. Sometimes the safer organic option won't be as safe as the synthetic one. I don't have problems per se with "synthetic" materials, but I do respect that compounds introduced within the past few decades are more likely to have zany side effects than those which plants have evolved alongside for hundreds of thousands of years. > Be it as it may, the danger will always be greater for farmers than consumers. Integrated Farming accounts for this as well, and the list of available pest management substances is constantly being updated. I don't know how well IF works in the US, but in the EU (Portugal) at least I get updates every now an then. It seems to me that the disparity in danger can be reduced by backing out of the monoculture / dead soil / carpet bombing style of farming and adopting practices more in keeping with how these plants seem to want to grow.
- chicob 7y ago
  I understand your heuristics, but let it not drift towards the naturalistic fallacy. Rotenone, an insecticide produced by some plants, is used in organic farming because it is naturally ocurring. It has been pointed out as a cause for Parkinson disease in farmers.[1] The likelihood of danger should be approached without any preconceived ideas. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone#Toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone#Toxicity
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
manifestsilence 7y ago
The problem with the glyphosate-resistant varieties is that they allow for liberal and injudicious use of the chemical. I'm sure it makes economic sense to be able to carpet spray your crop instead of having to spot spray or use careful timing, but over-spray blowing onto trees causes damage in many areas, as well as putting large quantities of glyphosate into water systems.
- chicob 7y ago
  I understand that worry, but it doesn't make much economic sense. It is possible that some farmers would abuse it, but that would be expensive and unnecessary, since the target weed would die with a regular dosage. Abuse of glyphosate spraying is also counter-productive. Low volume sprayings are generally more effective. And by the way, glyphosate-resistant does not mean glyphosate-impervious. Non-targets can still be harmed. The risk of over-usage of glyphosate is re-enforcing naturally occurring resistance in target weeds. Glyphosate should always be used at intervals, with different herbicides filling in the gaps.
  - manifestsilence 7y ago
    I mean to say that current levels of application as actually practiced are too high and cause damage. It seemingly hasn't been proven, but many people blame it for oak tatters: https://hortnews.extension.iastate.edu/oak-tatters https://hortnews.extension.iastate.edu/oak-tatters

by chicob 7y ago

jMyles 7y ago

> Buying organic is not safer, though, because one can still use herbicides in organic farming, as long as they aren't synthetic. Sometimes the safer organic option won't be as safe as the synthetic one. I don't have problems per se with "synthetic" materials, but I do respect that compounds introduced within the past few decades are more likely to have zany side effects than those which plants have evolved alongside for hundreds of thousands of years. > Be it as it may, the danger will always be greater for farmers than consumers. Integrated Farming accounts for this as well, and the list of available pest management substances is constantly being updated. I don't know how well IF works in the US, but in the EU (Portugal) at least I get updates every now an then. It seems to me that the disparity in danger can be reduced by backing out of the monoculture / dead soil / carpet bombing style of farming and adopting practices more in keeping with how these plants seem to want to grow.

chicob 7y ago
I understand your heuristics, but let it not drift towards the naturalistic fallacy. Rotenone, an insecticide produced by some plants, is used in organic farming because it is naturally ocurring. It has been pointed out as a cause for Parkinson disease in farmers.[1] The likelihood of danger should be approached without any preconceived ideas. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone#Toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone#Toxicity
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

manifestsilence 7y ago

The problem with the glyphosate-resistant varieties is that they allow for liberal and injudicious use of the chemical. I'm sure it makes economic sense to be able to carpet spray your crop instead of having to spot spray or use careful timing, but over-spray blowing onto trees causes damage in many areas, as well as putting large quantities of glyphosate into water systems.

chicob 7y ago
I understand that worry, but it doesn't make much economic sense. It is possible that some farmers would abuse it, but that would be expensive and unnecessary, since the target weed would die with a regular dosage. Abuse of glyphosate spraying is also counter-productive. Low volume sprayings are generally more effective. And by the way, glyphosate-resistant does not mean glyphosate-impervious. Non-targets can still be harmed. The risk of over-usage of glyphosate is re-enforcing naturally occurring resistance in target weeds. Glyphosate should always be used at intervals, with different herbicides filling in the gaps.
- manifestsilence 7y ago
  I mean to say that current levels of application as actually practiced are too high and cause damage. It seemingly hasn't been proven, but many people blame it for oak tatters: https://hortnews.extension.iastate.edu/oak-tatters https://hortnews.extension.iastate.edu/oak-tatters