4 ms·
Your first two points are great. Your third is a wickedly pernicious lie. I'm assuming from the context of your first two points that was not your deliberate i
by cagenut 7y ago
Your first two points are great. Your third is a wickedly pernicious lie. I'm assuming from the context of your first two points that was not your deliberate intention.
Imagine for a moment that coal, oil, gas, metals, rare earth elements, lithium, etc etc were all simply an interchangeable concept of "bad mass". Meaning, we need the mass to do something, but the process of mining/extracting/producing it has bad side affects.
One way of doing things, the bad mass is produced and consumed on a constant basis. The gas in your tank is used exactly once.
The other way of doing things the bad mass is produced and re-used for roughly a decade, after which it can be recycled. The lithium in your EV battery will get used several thousand times in its first life, a few hundred more in a secondary application, and then recycled for who knows how many more uses.
So simply from a "consumed" vs. "re-used" basis the process of mining lithium (and cobalt etc) would have to be thousands and thousands of times worse than the process of drilling/extracting/refining oil just for them to break even.
It is good and important to recognize that simply replacing ICEs with EVs is closer to harm reduction than problem-solving, but it is a very very large harm reduction so statements like "electric cars aren't any better for the environment given all the mining" retard that harm reduction.
- gigatexal 7y agoThat’s a very compelling way of thinking of it. The batteries can be reused. And when super capacitors show up we won’t need as much in the way of heavy metals, no?
- bartwe 7y agoIs the lithium and other ingredients in a battery pack suitable to be re used like glass/aluminium is ? to be remade into battery packs many times ?
- ce4 7y agoWhy shouldn't it? The metal is contained and can be reused. It's more an economic question if recycling or mining is cheaper.
- the_gastropod 7y agoThis is a good point. But electricity is still largely produced by fossil fuels. So if one is selling an efficient (30+ mpg) ICE car that they own to buy a new EV, the math may make less sense. At least for the short to medium term, anyway.
- cagenut 7y agoIndividual marginal efficiency arbitrage is the wrong mental framework for analysis of the problem at hand. We are not trying to burn carbon more efficiently, we are trying to stop burning carbon. We are not optimizing, we are solving for zero. An EV run on coal today will automatically inherent the solution as we decarbonize the grid.