9 ms·

This was perfectly said, and spot on. (Thank you.) Reading about how Canada welcomes skilled immigrants, almost brought tears to my eyes. If your English is go

This was perfectly said, and spot on. (Thank you.) Reading about how Canada welcomes skilled immigrants, almost brought tears to my eyes. If your English is good and you've studied in Canada (even just a bachelor's degree), you're given a Post-Graduation Work Permit (PGWP) upon graduation, and are practically guaranteed to eventually get a Canadian green card via the Canadian Experience Class (Express Entry) program. For folks outside Canada, good English, education beyond a bachelor's degree, and 3 years of skilled work experience, guarantees you'll have enough points to get a Federal Skilled Worker green card immediately. I haven't looked at countries besides Canada; but I would strongly recommend Canada over the U.S. for anyone seeking to migrate on the basis of skills.

rayiner 7y ago
Relevant: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/28/opinion/canada-immigration-policy-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/28/opinion/canada-immigratio... > But Canada’s hospitable attitude is not innate; it is, rather, the product of very hardheaded government policies. Ever since the mid-1960s, the majority of immigrants to the country (about 65 percent in 2015) have been admitted on purely economic grounds, having been evaluated under a nine-point rubric that ignores their race, religion and ethnicity and instead looks at their age, education, job skills, language ability and other attributes that define their potential contribution to the national work force.
- bregma 7y ago
  The Government of Canada enacted that policy because it's what the people of Canada demanded. The government doesn't make us be welcoming, we make the government be welcoming.
  - mistermann 7y ago
    Through what means did the Canadian public "demand" this policy? How was this public demand measured (in general, and in detail in order to craft the particulars of the policy)?
  - rayiner 7y ago
    But is your policy particularly welcoming? It’s basically, “you’re welcome here, but only if you speak English and preferably have a college degree.” I took the Canadian points-based immigration test for funsies (it’s online). If Trump rolled out the exact same test here—particularly with the focus on English language proficiency—it would be pilloried by our left as racist, classist, and xenophobic.
    - winter_blue 7y ago
      I don't want to get into political debates, but this is wrong. Democrats have always pushed for a merit-based points-based immigration for a while now. The 2013 immigration bill contained a merit-based system not unlike Canada's. A points-based system would only be pilloried by your caricature of the left. The fact of the matter is that the GOP is often quite dishonest. In public, they say things that often sound very reasonable, and hold positions similar to that of the Democrats/left (points-based immigration, protect pre-existing conditions, retain medicare, etc) -- and it helps them win votes. But as we all know, what they actually do (with executive action, bills introduced in Congress, etc) is often the very opposite of what they say. I won't be commenting on this topic anymore.
      - diebeforei485 7y ago
        > Democrats have always pushed for a merit-based points-based immigration for a while now. This documentary shows how much Democrats dislike this idea, though in some cases they're willing to accept it in exchange for an amnesty. https://vimeo.com/ondemand/hdwn/222701211 https://vimeo.com/ondemand/hdwn/222701211
      - mistermann 7y ago
        > The fact of the matter is that the GOP is often quite dishonest. The same can be said of the Democrats. All politicians are dishonest; heck, all human beings are dishonest. The degree to which is a matter of opinion. Any reasonably intelligent person should have no problem constructing a narrative that demonstrates genuine dishonesty on behalf of their ideological enemies. An intellectually honest person can easily demonstrate genuine dishonesty on behalf of both sides.
perfunctory 7y ago
> I haven't looked at countries besides Canada; but I would strongly recommend Canada over the U.S. for anyone seeking to migrate on the basis of skills. I would also suggest to consider the Netherlands. The procedure for highly skilled migrants is super simple. Pretty much the only condition is that your employer pays you a sufficient wage. https://ind.nl/en/work/Pages/Highly-skilled-migrant.aspx https://ind.nl/en/work/Pages/Highly-skilled-migrant.aspx
- throwmex 7y ago
  Canada is an English speaking country except Québec. Why would a highly skilled immigrant learn yet another language to immigrate to Netherlands, if given a choice between an English speaking country and non English one ?
  - perfunctory 7y ago
    Everybody speaks English in the Netherlands. People live there for years without learning the local language. Working language in many companies that hire migrants is English.
    - throwmex 7y ago
      Can those employees progress in their career without speaking the native language ? Will the kids get an education in English ? Can the immigrant take part in social activities ? Can they talk to their doctors or to the grocery store in English without misunderstanding. How is the attitude towards English ? Will a nationalist government change those English friendliness ? There are things like these a skilled economic immigrant should consider before immigrating to a non English speaking country. Take the example of Québec, although it's a province in the English speaking Canada, immigrants who speak only English are not welcomed and frowned upon. They find it hard to get by. They end up moving to other provinces. If the immigrant is not white, the difficulties are 2x in Québec. To be fair, Québec's hate for English is well founded if you examine their colonial history and hence the strict language laws.
  - cr1895 7y ago
Consultant32452 7y ago
US immigration policy is now somewhat akin to charity rather than intended to maximize the highly skilled talent pool. This isn't intended as a criticism, but by and large most of our immigration pool comes from poor countries and does not have specialized skills. And we're pretty lenient on illegal immigration which is largely low skilled labor as well. There's a movement right now to change it to be more like the Canada system, more closely based on skill. Whether that's better or worse is subjective I suppose.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > US immigration policy is now somewhat akin to charity rather than intended to maximize the highly skilled talent pool. No, it's not. It's largely intended to acheive different social values (particularly community cohesion and undivided loyalties, as opposed to optimizing labor pool to serve capital), which is why the major segment is family unification, but it's not a charity, operating on s need basis (the refugee component is charity-like, sure, but that's not a main component of the immigration system, and the US isn't particularly refugee friendly, even before Trump.)
throwmex 7y ago
Québec is an exception to this. Québec do not follow the Express Entry system. Québec has its own immigration system called Québec Skilled Worker Programme which is currently dysfunctional, plagued with delays. Québec gives more importance to knowing French rather than any other skills in selecting immigrants. As a result, Quebec has a pool of unemployable but French speaking immigrants.

rayiner 7y ago

Relevant: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/28/opinion/canada-immigration-policy-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/28/opinion/canada-immigratio... > But Canada’s hospitable attitude is not innate; it is, rather, the product of very hardheaded government policies. Ever since the mid-1960s, the majority of immigrants to the country (about 65 percent in 2015) have been admitted on purely economic grounds, having been evaluated under a nine-point rubric that ignores their race, religion and ethnicity and instead looks at their age, education, job skills, language ability and other attributes that define their potential contribution to the national work force.

bregma 7y ago
The Government of Canada enacted that policy because it's what the people of Canada demanded. The government doesn't make us be welcoming, we make the government be welcoming.
- mistermann 7y ago
  Through what means did the Canadian public "demand" this policy? How was this public demand measured (in general, and in detail in order to craft the particulars of the policy)?
- rayiner 7y ago
  But is your policy particularly welcoming? It’s basically, “you’re welcome here, but only if you speak English and preferably have a college degree.” I took the Canadian points-based immigration test for funsies (it’s online). If Trump rolled out the exact same test here—particularly with the focus on English language proficiency—it would be pilloried by our left as racist, classist, and xenophobic.
  - winter_blue 7y ago
    I don't want to get into political debates, but this is wrong. Democrats have always pushed for a merit-based points-based immigration for a while now. The 2013 immigration bill contained a merit-based system not unlike Canada's. A points-based system would only be pilloried by your caricature of the left. The fact of the matter is that the GOP is often quite dishonest. In public, they say things that often sound very reasonable, and hold positions similar to that of the Democrats/left (points-based immigration, protect pre-existing conditions, retain medicare, etc) -- and it helps them win votes. But as we all know, what they actually do (with executive action, bills introduced in Congress, etc) is often the very opposite of what they say. I won't be commenting on this topic anymore.
    - diebeforei485 7y ago
      > Democrats have always pushed for a merit-based points-based immigration for a while now. This documentary shows how much Democrats dislike this idea, though in some cases they're willing to accept it in exchange for an amnesty. https://vimeo.com/ondemand/hdwn/222701211 https://vimeo.com/ondemand/hdwn/222701211
    - mistermann 7y ago
      > The fact of the matter is that the GOP is often quite dishonest. The same can be said of the Democrats. All politicians are dishonest; heck, all human beings are dishonest. The degree to which is a matter of opinion. Any reasonably intelligent person should have no problem constructing a narrative that demonstrates genuine dishonesty on behalf of their ideological enemies. An intellectually honest person can easily demonstrate genuine dishonesty on behalf of both sides.

perfunctory 7y ago

> I haven't looked at countries besides Canada; but I would strongly recommend Canada over the U.S. for anyone seeking to migrate on the basis of skills. I would also suggest to consider the Netherlands. The procedure for highly skilled migrants is super simple. Pretty much the only condition is that your employer pays you a sufficient wage. https://ind.nl/en/work/Pages/Highly-skilled-migrant.aspx https://ind.nl/en/work/Pages/Highly-skilled-migrant.aspx

throwmex 7y ago
Canada is an English speaking country except Québec. Why would a highly skilled immigrant learn yet another language to immigrate to Netherlands, if given a choice between an English speaking country and non English one ?
- perfunctory 7y ago
  Everybody speaks English in the Netherlands. People live there for years without learning the local language. Working language in many companies that hire migrants is English.
  - throwmex 7y ago
    Can those employees progress in their career without speaking the native language ? Will the kids get an education in English ? Can the immigrant take part in social activities ? Can they talk to their doctors or to the grocery store in English without misunderstanding. How is the attitude towards English ? Will a nationalist government change those English friendliness ? There are things like these a skilled economic immigrant should consider before immigrating to a non English speaking country. Take the example of Québec, although it's a province in the English speaking Canada, immigrants who speak only English are not welcomed and frowned upon. They find it hard to get by. They end up moving to other provinces. If the immigrant is not white, the difficulties are 2x in Québec. To be fair, Québec's hate for English is well founded if you examine their colonial history and hence the strict language laws.
- cr1895 7y ago

Consultant32452 7y ago

US immigration policy is now somewhat akin to charity rather than intended to maximize the highly skilled talent pool. This isn't intended as a criticism, but by and large most of our immigration pool comes from poor countries and does not have specialized skills. And we're pretty lenient on illegal immigration which is largely low skilled labor as well. There's a movement right now to change it to be more like the Canada system, more closely based on skill. Whether that's better or worse is subjective I suppose.

dragonwriter 7y ago
> US immigration policy is now somewhat akin to charity rather than intended to maximize the highly skilled talent pool. No, it's not. It's largely intended to acheive different social values (particularly community cohesion and undivided loyalties, as opposed to optimizing labor pool to serve capital), which is why the major segment is family unification, but it's not a charity, operating on s need basis (the refugee component is charity-like, sure, but that's not a main component of the immigration system, and the US isn't particularly refugee friendly, even before Trump.)

throwmex 7y ago

Québec is an exception to this. Québec do not follow the Express Entry system. Québec has its own immigration system called Québec Skilled Worker Programme which is currently dysfunctional, plagued with delays. Québec gives more importance to knowing French rather than any other skills in selecting immigrants. As a result, Quebec has a pool of unemployable but French speaking immigrants.