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Digg lost to Reddit because they thought you could have a community-driven site which sidesteps the community to cater to advertisers. So the community left.

Digg lost to Reddit because they thought you could have a community-driven site which sidesteps the community to cater to advertisers. So the community left. And felt so betrayed, they salted the earth behind them.

siglesias 16y ago
It also happens to be a community that chooses content that repels 99% of the population, so it was an understandable objective to try to sidestep them, if growth is the objective. Requested elaboration: "Digg was never able to diversify content (read: expand, scale, grow) because it was never worth it for minority voices--and here I'm referring to non-liberal, non-young, non-male, non-athiest users--to attempt to carve out space and participate." http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1831431 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1831431. Looks like we've had this debate already, Michael! I think the particular niche that Digg has chosen (rather, has chosen Digg) is common knowledge. It's hard to escape the conclusion that minority voices were actively suppressed there and that Digg had two routes: niche sub-diggs or a personalized Twitter-like experience that didn't function like old-Digg. The revolt was predicted, but the technical problems that would make it easy for new users to play with it were not.
- navyrain 16y ago
  I think this flippant comment requires some proof to be taken seriously. Its hard to believe digg got to where it was by being repellant to 99% of the population.
  - ojbyrne 16y ago
    It's the standard conservative/libertarian line on what was wrong with Digg. As if 99% of the population is conservative/libertarian.
    - siglesias 16y ago
      Political affiliation is only one of many ideological and demographic dividing lines that the Digg power users carved out.
    - ataggart 16y ago
      >conservative/libertarian 1. That's an ignorant conjoining 2. Libertarians are well aware they're members of a vanishingly small minority
  - SkyMarshal 16y ago
    That probably works out, actually. Given that the US population is ~300M, Digg getting 1% of that would give them 3M, which is somewhere around their userbase, plus or minus a few million (I don't know their numbers, but Reddit by comparison recently hit something like 8M uniques/month). Of course, not all 300M US citizens are online, so adjust as necessary. Digg probably got something like 1%-5% of the US online population, which was enough to get it to where it was.
- michaelchisari 16y ago
  I agree with @navyrain, this has [citation needed] written all over it, but I'd like to ask this question: What would a community driven site that wasn't repellant to the majority of the population look like? Humans are so non-homogenous and diverse, that the greatness of the internet is found in it's ability to be a collection of niche communities, not a place where catering to the lowest common denominator is the only route to success.
axod 16y ago
Until Reddit posts a decent profit it's not clear either of them really 'won' is it? Digg tried to monetize and drove away their users. I'm not sure Reddit has really tried to monetize as much yet apart from their 'donate' thing.
- michaelchisari 16y ago
  If Reddit makes enough to pay the bills, maintain steady paychecks, and keep their users happy, then maybe a huge profit margin isn't necessary. If they can continually do that, that may mean a longevity that few corporations could claim, let alone internet companies. The great thing about reddit, also, is that it's structure lends itself to accommodating niche communities. If you don't like the Pics subreddit, you read the Funny subreddit instead. If you just want to read about Harry Potter and Ruby on Rails, you can, and you can pretend the rest of the site doesn't even exist. This minimizes the possibility that a shiny new site will attract users away. If Reddit can keep the lights on, the employees paid, and the community diverse and satisfied, then I'd say they've "won", and I don't think large profits are necessary. As an aside, I also wonder if web 2.0 has really proven itself, outside of a few exceptions, to be generally profitable the way valuations show that investors expect it to be.
  - Legion 16y ago
    The ability to create your own personal walled garden of content topics is key. Sometimes I forget how strange and meme-obsessed Reddit is until I find myself at the front page while logged out. "My" front page is a much less silly place. My wife's page is all crafts and Disney - she has no idea what lurks in other corners of the site.
- redthrowaway 16y ago
  The founders already cashed out, so now it's Conde Nast's problem. They don't really seem to notice Reddit, so Reddit just putters along. I'd say it was damned successful, with Ohanian and Huffman cashing out within a year. Everything since is just gravy.
  - 16y ago
3dFlatLander 16y ago
Do you remember the story that Kevin Rose started digg with 500 bucks (or some such amount)? It wasn't until I watched the mixergy interview with Owen that I found out that was false. While that wasn't betrayal, it did leave a bad taste in my mouth. The motivations for making a PR fabrication like that are pretty obvious, but it just didn't sit well with me.

siglesias 16y ago

It also happens to be a community that chooses content that repels 99% of the population, so it was an understandable objective to try to sidestep them, if growth is the objective. Requested elaboration: "Digg was never able to diversify content (read: expand, scale, grow) because it was never worth it for minority voices--and here I'm referring to non-liberal, non-young, non-male, non-athiest users--to attempt to carve out space and participate." http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1831431 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1831431. Looks like we've had this debate already, Michael! I think the particular niche that Digg has chosen (rather, has chosen Digg) is common knowledge. It's hard to escape the conclusion that minority voices were actively suppressed there and that Digg had two routes: niche sub-diggs or a personalized Twitter-like experience that didn't function like old-Digg. The revolt was predicted, but the technical problems that would make it easy for new users to play with it were not.

navyrain 16y ago
I think this flippant comment requires some proof to be taken seriously. Its hard to believe digg got to where it was by being repellant to 99% of the population.
- ojbyrne 16y ago
  It's the standard conservative/libertarian line on what was wrong with Digg. As if 99% of the population is conservative/libertarian.
  - siglesias 16y ago
    Political affiliation is only one of many ideological and demographic dividing lines that the Digg power users carved out.
  - ataggart 16y ago
    >conservative/libertarian 1. That's an ignorant conjoining 2. Libertarians are well aware they're members of a vanishingly small minority
- SkyMarshal 16y ago
  That probably works out, actually. Given that the US population is ~300M, Digg getting 1% of that would give them 3M, which is somewhere around their userbase, plus or minus a few million (I don't know their numbers, but Reddit by comparison recently hit something like 8M uniques/month). Of course, not all 300M US citizens are online, so adjust as necessary. Digg probably got something like 1%-5% of the US online population, which was enough to get it to where it was.
michaelchisari 16y ago
I agree with @navyrain, this has [citation needed] written all over it, but I'd like to ask this question: What would a community driven site that wasn't repellant to the majority of the population look like? Humans are so non-homogenous and diverse, that the greatness of the internet is found in it's ability to be a collection of niche communities, not a place where catering to the lowest common denominator is the only route to success.

axod 16y ago

Until Reddit posts a decent profit it's not clear either of them really 'won' is it? Digg tried to monetize and drove away their users. I'm not sure Reddit has really tried to monetize as much yet apart from their 'donate' thing.

michaelchisari 16y ago
If Reddit makes enough to pay the bills, maintain steady paychecks, and keep their users happy, then maybe a huge profit margin isn't necessary. If they can continually do that, that may mean a longevity that few corporations could claim, let alone internet companies. The great thing about reddit, also, is that it's structure lends itself to accommodating niche communities. If you don't like the Pics subreddit, you read the Funny subreddit instead. If you just want to read about Harry Potter and Ruby on Rails, you can, and you can pretend the rest of the site doesn't even exist. This minimizes the possibility that a shiny new site will attract users away. If Reddit can keep the lights on, the employees paid, and the community diverse and satisfied, then I'd say they've "won", and I don't think large profits are necessary. As an aside, I also wonder if web 2.0 has really proven itself, outside of a few exceptions, to be generally profitable the way valuations show that investors expect it to be.
- Legion 16y ago
  The ability to create your own personal walled garden of content topics is key. Sometimes I forget how strange and meme-obsessed Reddit is until I find myself at the front page while logged out. "My" front page is a much less silly place. My wife's page is all crafts and Disney - she has no idea what lurks in other corners of the site.
redthrowaway 16y ago
The founders already cashed out, so now it's Conde Nast's problem. They don't really seem to notice Reddit, so Reddit just putters along. I'd say it was damned successful, with Ohanian and Huffman cashing out within a year. Everything since is just gravy.
- 16y ago

3dFlatLander 16y ago

Do you remember the story that Kevin Rose started digg with 500 bucks (or some such amount)? It wasn't until I watched the mixergy interview with Owen that I found out that was false. While that wasn't betrayal, it did leave a bad taste in my mouth. The motivations for making a PR fabrication like that are pretty obvious, but it just didn't sit well with me.