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TSMC is selling chips to Huawei under war pressure of the Chinese government. TSMC should stop the supply.

adinobro 7y ago
I'm just curious why you think a Taiwanese company should stop selling to a Chinese company based on statement/policy of a foreign country? It is obviously in their best financial interest to sell to Huawei. Why should they stop?
- TomMarius 7y ago
  I could understand them wanting TSMC to stop buying from Huawei, but why this?
- thefounder 7y ago
  Because all this "national security" is really about trade not national security. Trump declared national security on steel, cars and pretty much any important industry that US didn't lead.
  - edraferi 7y ago
    Incorrect. While the Trump administration is more enthusiastic about aggressive intervention in commerce in general, the recent sanctions are the culmination of over a decade of bad behavior by Huawei, recognized by many countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Huawei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Huawei
    - thefounder 7y ago
      How were the mini-vans from Canada a national security threat? As far as technology is concerned US is using its corporations(Apple, Cisco, microsoft etc) for espionage as well so there is nothing new here.
      - imglorp 7y ago
        I think the assertion is that US has lost core competency at things like steel and cars, so by making it harder to bring in mini-vans from Canada or whatever, they're proposing a magic rebirth of those industries in country. Those are the same competencies we'd need if we wanted to build tanks or battleships or bombers for another assault on Normandy. Which we don't, that was important 80 years ago but not now. The reality of course is probably more like pandering to steel and auto workers.
    - realradicalwash 7y ago
      > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Huawei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Huawei I see lots of accusations, but very little evidence
- i_am_proteus 7y ago
  Communist China intends to conquer Taiwan. If that happens, all Taiwanese companies will be under the de facto control of the Chinese Communist Party. Selling to Huawei most likely aids Communist China in acheiving it's long-term goal of conquering Taiwan. So if the owners of a Taiwanese company prefer to control the company rather than cede de facto control to the Chinese Communist Party, this seems entirely reasonable.
  - dfrage 7y ago
    If I was the Taiwanese leadership, I'd make it very clear we'd prepositioned enough explosives that in a matter of hours all the top fabs and the like could be turned into junk, denying the PRC these crown jewels. Just speaking for myself, I've got plans for the inevitable disruptions such a war would create. We'd be throwing away a lot less electronic gear for quite some time.
chvid 7y ago
Taiwan's chip industry is an obvious winner in USA's trade war against China.
chvid 7y ago
Mainland China is by far Taiwan's biggest trading partner. If you were TSMC or the Taiwan government - why would you risk that relationship?
- qaq 7y ago
  Because the main reason Taiwan is not part of communist China is it has military protection from US?
- tooltalk 7y ago
  > Mainland China is by far Taiwan's biggest trading partner. That's true for most neighboring Asian countries. But I'm also guessing that most fabless customers are American. Sure, there are Chinese fabless chipmakers such as HiSilicon (Huawei), Tsinghua Unigroup, but nowhere as big as Apple, Qualcomm, or AMD.
  - kingosticks 7y ago
    Where else would Apple, Qualcomm, and AMD (don't forget Broadcom too) go for their cutting edge silicon? Samsung couldn't handle that demand. I think they can pretty much do what they want when it comes to maintaining their business with China.
    - tooltalk 7y ago
      Of course Samsung can handle that demand. They got plenty of capacity just laying around and ramp up more as needed.
      - kingosticks 7y ago
        I thought the majority of their production capacity is for memory and displays, which isn't just lying around ready to go for 7nm chip customers. And having plenty of unused capacity lying around seems unlikely to me considering the costs involved. They only got into fabbing other people's stuff seriously a couple of years ago, I know they have business from Global Foundries but I can't think of any others. I don't think there is anything "of course" about suddenly taking on that level of new business. Ramping up however many new plants is a huge deal, these chips are in full production right now. Capacity aside, swapping vendor is a monumental task. They may not even have the packaging tech that's needed. Either way, I guess anyone who actually knows can't say.

I'm just curious why you think a Taiwanese company should stop selling to a Chinese company based on statement/policy of a foreign country? It is obviously in their best financial interest to sell to Huawei. Why should they stop?

TomMarius 7y ago
I could understand them wanting TSMC to stop buying from Huawei, but why this?
thefounder 7y ago
Because all this "national security" is really about trade not national security. Trump declared national security on steel, cars and pretty much any important industry that US didn't lead.
- edraferi 7y ago
  Incorrect. While the Trump administration is more enthusiastic about aggressive intervention in commerce in general, the recent sanctions are the culmination of over a decade of bad behavior by Huawei, recognized by many countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Huawei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Huawei
  - thefounder 7y ago
    How were the mini-vans from Canada a national security threat? As far as technology is concerned US is using its corporations(Apple, Cisco, microsoft etc) for espionage as well so there is nothing new here.
    - imglorp 7y ago
      I think the assertion is that US has lost core competency at things like steel and cars, so by making it harder to bring in mini-vans from Canada or whatever, they're proposing a magic rebirth of those industries in country. Those are the same competencies we'd need if we wanted to build tanks or battleships or bombers for another assault on Normandy. Which we don't, that was important 80 years ago but not now. The reality of course is probably more like pandering to steel and auto workers.
  - realradicalwash 7y ago
    > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Huawei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Huawei I see lots of accusations, but very little evidence
i_am_proteus 7y ago
Communist China intends to conquer Taiwan. If that happens, all Taiwanese companies will be under the de facto control of the Chinese Communist Party. Selling to Huawei most likely aids Communist China in acheiving it's long-term goal of conquering Taiwan. So if the owners of a Taiwanese company prefer to control the company rather than cede de facto control to the Chinese Communist Party, this seems entirely reasonable.
- dfrage 7y ago
  If I was the Taiwanese leadership, I'd make it very clear we'd prepositioned enough explosives that in a matter of hours all the top fabs and the like could be turned into junk, denying the PRC these crown jewels. Just speaking for myself, I've got plans for the inevitable disruptions such a war would create. We'd be throwing away a lot less electronic gear for quite some time.

chvid 7y ago

Taiwan's chip industry is an obvious winner in USA's trade war against China.

chvid 7y ago

Mainland China is by far Taiwan's biggest trading partner. If you were TSMC or the Taiwan government - why would you risk that relationship?

qaq 7y ago
Because the main reason Taiwan is not part of communist China is it has military protection from US?
tooltalk 7y ago
> Mainland China is by far Taiwan's biggest trading partner. That's true for most neighboring Asian countries. But I'm also guessing that most fabless customers are American. Sure, there are Chinese fabless chipmakers such as HiSilicon (Huawei), Tsinghua Unigroup, but nowhere as big as Apple, Qualcomm, or AMD.
- kingosticks 7y ago
  Where else would Apple, Qualcomm, and AMD (don't forget Broadcom too) go for their cutting edge silicon? Samsung couldn't handle that demand. I think they can pretty much do what they want when it comes to maintaining their business with China.
  - tooltalk 7y ago
    Of course Samsung can handle that demand. They got plenty of capacity just laying around and ramp up more as needed.
    - kingosticks 7y ago
      I thought the majority of their production capacity is for memory and displays, which isn't just lying around ready to go for 7nm chip customers. And having plenty of unused capacity lying around seems unlikely to me considering the costs involved. They only got into fabbing other people's stuff seriously a couple of years ago, I know they have business from Global Foundries but I can't think of any others. I don't think there is anything "of course" about suddenly taking on that level of new business. Ramping up however many new plants is a huge deal, these chips are in full production right now. Capacity aside, swapping vendor is a monumental task. They may not even have the packaging tech that's needed. Either way, I guess anyone who actually knows can't say.