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> I'm actually somewhat torn on this one. At face value, I fully agree. More, none of my cats have been declawed, as I just don't see the point. > That said, I
by vageli 7y ago
> I'm actually somewhat torn on this one. At face value, I fully agree. More, none of my cats have been declawed, as I just don't see the point.
> That said, I also don't buy the mutilation argument at face value. We literally castrated all of our male cats, and nobody bats an eye. Indeed, you seem to be frowned upon if you don't. Surely that is as mutilating to a male cat as losing a knuckle?
At least castration has the actual benefit of aiding in population control. I don't see any benefit to declawing and in fact it endangers outdoor cats as they can't adequately protect themselves.
- taeric 7y agoCastration is a bit of a brute force for population control. No reason we couldn't also give cats vasectomies. For the other, are there actual numbers on what that means for cats? Feels like an appeal to emotion, as much as anything else. Outdoor cats, I would presume, are far more likely to die from a car than from anything they can protect themselves from with front claws. And again. I actually support the idea here. I just don't know if I have strong logic to stand on. I'd call it devil's advocate, but I'm not sure that is right.
- darkr 7y ago> Castration is a bit of a brute force for population control. No reason we couldn't also give cats vasectomies. Male un-neutered cats, somewhat like some of their human un-neutered counterparts, are prone to aggressive, overly sexual, and territorial behaviour (including spraying). Likely fine on on an outdoor farm cat, but probably not what you want for a pet who lives in your house.
- taeric 7y agoThis feels awfully close to the argument that cats with claws cause damage. Specifically indoor cats, that will never have to defend themselves from anything.
- darkr 7y agoCats with claws absolutely do cause damage to furniture (mine is ruined). If you care about your furniture you shouldn’t have a cat. I believe the morality laws around surgery on pets are something like “It’s ok to perform surgery on pets as long as your intent is to inflict psychological damage; so as to break their will and make the animal more domesticated, but it’s not ok if it’s purely cosmetic”. Don’t question the laws man.
- viraptor 7y agoThis is pretty similar to training, isn't it? As in, training a dog is really to break their natural behaviour and move from slave for food/fun to slave by default. Yet, it's also widely accepted. (Yes, I have a dog)
- oeuviz 7y ago'pets' and 'natural behaviour' do not really play along. All domesticated animals are far from being 'natural' in almost any way. That said, I consider declawing a form of assault to the animal, taking away from it the only tools it can use and the main weapon to defend itself.
- vageli 7y agoHuman beings don't have claws, so we invented blades. Cats don't have the luxury to invent their own adaptations.
- asdff 7y agoYou can train cats to not scratch on furniture and the damage is minimized if you are regularly cutting their nails. You have to provide something better to scratch on like a scratching post or cardboard, and discourage bad behavior on problem furniture. Cats do learn.
- jrace 7y agoI have had cats for years. it is easy to train them not to scratch things - without resorting to throwing stuff at them. When I have adopted senior cats who are resistant to change I have just buyild scratching posts that sit beside the couch. Just like kids and dogs, you need to not only say NO, but to also say YES to what they can do. If you value your couch over your cats well-being you do not deserve a cat.
- antisemiotic 7y agoI have a feeling that suggesting castration to solve the problem of male homo sapiens spraying on walls and trees near pubs could be met with some opposition...
- raverbashing 7y agoCastration, as opposed to just a vasectomy, helps with behavioural issues as well. And it's not just "making the cat tamer", but male cats get in fights with other cats more often if not castrated.
- taeric 7y agoRead: it causes measurable change and, depending how you read it, harm to the animal. I'm sympathetic, in that without this many people would not want or be able to keep male cats. But I'm not sure I have a logical leg to stand on to say this is acceptable, but that declawing is not.
- challenger22 7y agoFailing to declaw an outdoor cat lets the cat kill more birds; cats are an invasive species that kill billions of birds per year.
- xkcd-sucks 7y agoThe ecological impact of a few cats is tiny compared to that of a human. If you really care about the environment, don't have children and maybe kill yourself too
- challenger22 7y agoI follow your example. Thanks for the wisdom.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ryan_j_naughton 7y ago>The ecological impact of a few cats is tiny compared to that of a human. If you really care about the environment, don't have children and maybe kill yourself too. On avian populations, that simply isn't true. "According to their calculations, outdoor cats killed somewhere in the ballpark of 2.4 billion birds and 12.3 billion small mammals in the U.S. per year—far exceeding any other human-influenced cause of avian death, such as pesticides or collisions with window."[1] I agree with your concerns regarding human overpopulation though. My wife and I aren't having kids. [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/moral-cost-of-cats-180960505/#lCh7DDA9Do2HRmSz.99 https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/moral-cost-of-...
- asdff 7y agoIt also prevents your cat from defending itself from other cats, dogs, raccoons, possum, fox, insert local critter here that will fuck up your cat, in the event your cat gets loose. You shouldn't let your cat be unsupervised killing birds, that's just irresponsible as you say.