4 ms·

This was basically the plot of the Black Mirror episode "Arkangel" [0] We need to give kids more space to discover their own limits, and to get hurt. I look at

by jadell 7y ago

This was basically the plot of the Black Mirror episode "Arkangel" [0] We need to give kids more space to discover their own limits, and to get hurt. I look at the kids in "Stranger Things" riding their unsupervised across town, playing in a junk yard, and I remember doing that stuff (child of the 80s/early 90s here.) Staying out until the streetlights came on. Yes, we got injured. Yes, I ended up in parts of town I probably shouldn't have been in. Occasionally, I got my ass kicked. This was all part of growing up for most of human history. I never see the kids in my neighborhood doing that. I've never seen any of them leave the street, and always with the parents on the patio, chatting with each other. The last time I saw a roving band of 9-to-13 year-olds biking around town was probably the early 2000s. I kind of understand what changed media- and culture-wise, but has the real world actually changed that much in 25 years to merit the sort of constant-supervision-every-moment-planned-and-accounted-for world kids now grow up in? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkangel_(Black_Mirror) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkangel_(Black_Mirror)

fatnoah 7y ago
>I never see the kids in my neighborhood doing that. I've never seen any of them leave the street, and always with the parents on the patio, chatting with each other. The last time I saw a roving band of 9-to-13 year-olds biking around town was probably the early 2000s. My life was similar. Be home by dark and stay in the neighborhood. Aside from that, it was explorations in the woods, roaming around, and generally just making fun where I found it. I now have an 11 year old, and we recently put up a basketball hoop. A side effect is that we've started to attract some neighborhood kids. When it's a first time visitor, I do like to query to make sure it's ok that they're out and about, and I've received a refreshing number of "Yeah, I just have to be home by 6" responses. Occasionally, my son will join a small group and "go on an adventure" and I remind him to stay in the neighborhood, and be home by dinner. Yes, it's a bit nerve-wracking at first, and I'm sure there's a non-zero risk of something happening, but watching my son thrive and the pride he has at having some independence is immeasurable. As parents, I think we forget that our task is not merely to get our kids safely to a certain age, but it's also to enable them to operate in the real world as independent, fully functional humans.
- mywacaday 7y ago
  I read a quote recently,"We're not here to stop our kids getting hurt, just to stop them getting maimed or killed". While a bit exaggerated it rings true for me. I don't see how children can build a worthwhile sense of responsible independence without learning where the boundaries are and how to judge risk for themselves. There is probably a whole book on the subject but I think society has lost some of the ability to look out for others, when I was young if you were hurt or too far from home you could always rely on a neighbour to help and would have no issue in knocking on their door, even the old single guys. The other side of the argument now is the fear of interacting with somebody elses child as and adult, last year I came across a small girl(5/6) who had fallen and grazed her leg and there was nobody else around, I was really deliberate about not touching her in case parent or guardian came around the corner. I felt horrible about it but thats the way things are I guess.
  - moultano 7y ago
    >I read a quote recently,"We're not here to stop our kids getting hurt, just to stop them getting maimed or killed". I agree with this wholeheartedly, but unfortunately the most likely thing to kill them are the cars that are everywhere they might go. My kids are too young for this to be applicable right now, but someday I hope to give them this kind of independence, but I don't know how to do it with the sheer volume of traffic and terrible drivers. I even don't feel safe biking myself. I'm perfectly happy letting them take risks where they might break bones, but I just don't know how to deal with a world where they're reasonably likely to get killed if they're on the street with a bike.
  - fatnoah 7y ago
    >The other side of the argument now is the fear of interacting with somebody elses child as and adult, last year I came across a small girl(5/6) who had fallen and grazed her leg and there was nobody else around, I was really deliberate about not touching her in case parent or guardian came around the corner. I felt horrible about it but thats the way things are I guess. I know the feeling. I was walking my son home from school in downtown Boston and we approached a street corner where two young girls (looked like Grades K and 3) were sitting on the ground. I did go through the mental process of asking myself it was OK to talk to them because my son was with me and then (most importantly) thinking about what I'd want a friendly stranger to do if it was my kid there. As it turns out, they were dropped off by their school bus, but there was a miscommunication between mom and dad about who was to handle pickup. Fortunately the older one knew dad's phone number. He ignored my call, but immediately called when I followed up with a text to explain the situation. You do have to be very careful, though. As a coach of youth sports, a common task for the very young kids is to help them tie things. I'll do shoes, but mom or dad have to help with your shorts.
jofer 7y ago
My knee-jerk reaction is to agree with you, but I think we're doing what every generation does... Things aren't as different as they seem. > I never see the kids in my neighborhood doing that. I've never seen any of them leave the street, and always with the parents on the patio, chatting with each other. The last time I saw a roving band of 9-to-13 year-olds biking around town was probably the early 2000s. I dunno... I see "roving bands of kids on bikes" a lot. Also kids playing unattended in vacant lots/etc. Perhaps it's because I work from home and am therefore in a residential neighborhood when school gets out. I never noticed "roving kids" when I worked downtown and didn't get home until 6-ish. Kids will always be kids. They'll always find ways to get away and be unsupervised. For our generation, most shenanigans happened on the way home from school, anyway. That's still unsupervised time. I feel like kids today interact differently due to omnipresent communication, but they certainly still wander around and get "into trouble" pretty regularly. I think we also forget how much of our time was supervised. Sure, I played with friends down by the creek and out in the woods, but someone usually knew exactly where we were, and we were rarely out of shouting distance. We remember the crazy romps around wherever, but we forget how much of the time a parent was just around the corner. It's really not so different today.
jmspring 7y ago
My early years were in the Bay Area and Sacramento and I shake my head at the things we did (late 80s). My girlfriend grew up in Santa Cruz and the things her and her siblings did, she never will let her daughter do. And it's less about helicopter parenting/etc and more about the addict/criminal element that has crept in to a good deal of the city. More freedom as they get older, but there are things I never had to deal with - rampant numbers of unstable individuals.
Retra 7y ago
When I was a kid, I roved around with my friends, but not really ever in places where adults were able to observe me. So there might be some selection bias at play here.
jetrink 7y ago
For a few weeks in 2016, my neighborhood was transformed by Pokemon Go. Children were everywhere. They roamed in twos and threes on every block; dozens gathered in the park. I couldn't believe that my neighborhood was home to so many kids. Then, as suddenly as they appeared, they were gone. I think if there were more reasons to be outdoors having fun with friends, children would find a way.
baxtr 7y ago
This is an interesting article discussing the differences regarding “free range parenting” in America compared to many other places https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/reader-center/free-range-parenting-outside-united-states.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/reader-center/free-range-...
ars 7y ago
We've replaced unsupervised access to outdoors with unsupervised access to the internet. Please care less and less about the real world. Watch teens, they barely even acknowledge the world, if it's not in their phone it's not real.
abecedarius 7y ago
It seems to be a century-plus-long trend, to go by this fun interesting book https://www.amazon.com/Where-Did-Out-What-Nothing/dp/0393339416 https://www.amazon.com/Where-Did-Out-What-Nothing/dp/0393339... written in the 1950s contrasting the author's childhood with the kids thenadays. My 1970s childhood wasn't too different from the 50s described, but had a little more control-and-safety, especially starting in the 80s.

by jadell 7y ago

fatnoah 7y ago

>I never see the kids in my neighborhood doing that. I've never seen any of them leave the street, and always with the parents on the patio, chatting with each other. The last time I saw a roving band of 9-to-13 year-olds biking around town was probably the early 2000s. My life was similar. Be home by dark and stay in the neighborhood. Aside from that, it was explorations in the woods, roaming around, and generally just making fun where I found it. I now have an 11 year old, and we recently put up a basketball hoop. A side effect is that we've started to attract some neighborhood kids. When it's a first time visitor, I do like to query to make sure it's ok that they're out and about, and I've received a refreshing number of "Yeah, I just have to be home by 6" responses. Occasionally, my son will join a small group and "go on an adventure" and I remind him to stay in the neighborhood, and be home by dinner. Yes, it's a bit nerve-wracking at first, and I'm sure there's a non-zero risk of something happening, but watching my son thrive and the pride he has at having some independence is immeasurable. As parents, I think we forget that our task is not merely to get our kids safely to a certain age, but it's also to enable them to operate in the real world as independent, fully functional humans.

mywacaday 7y ago
I read a quote recently,"We're not here to stop our kids getting hurt, just to stop them getting maimed or killed". While a bit exaggerated it rings true for me. I don't see how children can build a worthwhile sense of responsible independence without learning where the boundaries are and how to judge risk for themselves. There is probably a whole book on the subject but I think society has lost some of the ability to look out for others, when I was young if you were hurt or too far from home you could always rely on a neighbour to help and would have no issue in knocking on their door, even the old single guys. The other side of the argument now is the fear of interacting with somebody elses child as and adult, last year I came across a small girl(5/6) who had fallen and grazed her leg and there was nobody else around, I was really deliberate about not touching her in case parent or guardian came around the corner. I felt horrible about it but thats the way things are I guess.
- moultano 7y ago
  >I read a quote recently,"We're not here to stop our kids getting hurt, just to stop them getting maimed or killed". I agree with this wholeheartedly, but unfortunately the most likely thing to kill them are the cars that are everywhere they might go. My kids are too young for this to be applicable right now, but someday I hope to give them this kind of independence, but I don't know how to do it with the sheer volume of traffic and terrible drivers. I even don't feel safe biking myself. I'm perfectly happy letting them take risks where they might break bones, but I just don't know how to deal with a world where they're reasonably likely to get killed if they're on the street with a bike.
- fatnoah 7y ago
  >The other side of the argument now is the fear of interacting with somebody elses child as and adult, last year I came across a small girl(5/6) who had fallen and grazed her leg and there was nobody else around, I was really deliberate about not touching her in case parent or guardian came around the corner. I felt horrible about it but thats the way things are I guess. I know the feeling. I was walking my son home from school in downtown Boston and we approached a street corner where two young girls (looked like Grades K and 3) were sitting on the ground. I did go through the mental process of asking myself it was OK to talk to them because my son was with me and then (most importantly) thinking about what I'd want a friendly stranger to do if it was my kid there. As it turns out, they were dropped off by their school bus, but there was a miscommunication between mom and dad about who was to handle pickup. Fortunately the older one knew dad's phone number. He ignored my call, but immediately called when I followed up with a text to explain the situation. You do have to be very careful, though. As a coach of youth sports, a common task for the very young kids is to help them tie things. I'll do shoes, but mom or dad have to help with your shorts.

jofer 7y ago

My knee-jerk reaction is to agree with you, but I think we're doing what every generation does... Things aren't as different as they seem. > I never see the kids in my neighborhood doing that. I've never seen any of them leave the street, and always with the parents on the patio, chatting with each other. The last time I saw a roving band of 9-to-13 year-olds biking around town was probably the early 2000s. I dunno... I see "roving bands of kids on bikes" a lot. Also kids playing unattended in vacant lots/etc. Perhaps it's because I work from home and am therefore in a residential neighborhood when school gets out. I never noticed "roving kids" when I worked downtown and didn't get home until 6-ish. Kids will always be kids. They'll always find ways to get away and be unsupervised. For our generation, most shenanigans happened on the way home from school, anyway. That's still unsupervised time. I feel like kids today interact differently due to omnipresent communication, but they certainly still wander around and get "into trouble" pretty regularly. I think we also forget how much of our time was supervised. Sure, I played with friends down by the creek and out in the woods, but someone usually knew exactly where we were, and we were rarely out of shouting distance. We remember the crazy romps around wherever, but we forget how much of the time a parent was just around the corner. It's really not so different today.

jmspring 7y ago

My early years were in the Bay Area and Sacramento and I shake my head at the things we did (late 80s). My girlfriend grew up in Santa Cruz and the things her and her siblings did, she never will let her daughter do. And it's less about helicopter parenting/etc and more about the addict/criminal element that has crept in to a good deal of the city. More freedom as they get older, but there are things I never had to deal with - rampant numbers of unstable individuals.

Retra 7y ago

When I was a kid, I roved around with my friends, but not really ever in places where adults were able to observe me. So there might be some selection bias at play here.

jetrink 7y ago

For a few weeks in 2016, my neighborhood was transformed by Pokemon Go. Children were everywhere. They roamed in twos and threes on every block; dozens gathered in the park. I couldn't believe that my neighborhood was home to so many kids. Then, as suddenly as they appeared, they were gone. I think if there were more reasons to be outdoors having fun with friends, children would find a way.

baxtr 7y ago

This is an interesting article discussing the differences regarding “free range parenting” in America compared to many other places https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/reader-center/free-range-parenting-outside-united-states.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/reader-center/free-range-...

ars 7y ago

We've replaced unsupervised access to outdoors with unsupervised access to the internet. Please care less and less about the real world. Watch teens, they barely even acknowledge the world, if it's not in their phone it's not real.

abecedarius 7y ago

It seems to be a century-plus-long trend, to go by this fun interesting book https://www.amazon.com/Where-Did-Out-What-Nothing/dp/0393339416 https://www.amazon.com/Where-Did-Out-What-Nothing/dp/0393339... written in the 1950s contrasting the author's childhood with the kids thenadays. My 1970s childhood wasn't too different from the 50s described, but had a little more control-and-safety, especially starting in the 80s.