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I haven't read the mechanics of this fully yet, but the first obvious scenario I can foresee: 1. Customer signs up for service on iPhone with "Sign in With App

by giobox 7y ago

I haven't read the mechanics of this fully yet, but the first obvious scenario I can foresee: 1. Customer signs up for service on iPhone with "Sign in With Apple". 2. Customer sells iPhone. 3. Customer buys Android phone. How does customer sign in and keep their same account on the new phone? For sure there might be other mitigation strategies (a web UI that allows account migration etc), but this decision absolutely has ramifications beyond just iOS users of apps using third party signin. Same is true of customers with devices in both ecosystems - Android phone and an iPad tablet, for example. If customer signs up on the iPad with "Sign in With Apple", how do they log in on the Android phone that only has the other third party login integrations? People are going to have to think this through, and Apple forcing it on all Apps using third party signin means they are going to have to think it through soon.

Someone 7y ago
”How does customer sign in and keep their same account on the new phone?” I would guess by keeping their Apple ID. AFAIK, you don’t have to buy anything from Apple to get one. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204316 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204316: ”An Apple ID is the account you use to access Apple services like iCloud, the App Store, the iTunes Store, Apple Music, and more. It includes the email address and password that you use to sign in” https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204316#web https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204316#web: ”Use a web browser If you need to create an Apple ID on your device — including your Android device or Apple TV — you can usually follow the steps provided when you set up your device or Apple service for the first time”
- giobox 7y ago
  And how do they login on the Android phone with the Apple ID with no changes to the Android app? That's the question OP didn't understand and which your reply completely ignores. While this is an iOS change, it will have effects beyond just iOS. I think most of us are fully aware an Apple ID survives even if you have no Apple devices without recourse to Apple help links.
  - keymone 7y ago
    Facebook doesn't control Android yet people are able to login using "Sign in with Facebook" button on Android phones.
    - giobox 7y ago
      Of course. But the "Sign in with Facebook" button didn't appear by magic on the Android app, did it? Someone had to add support to their app for it. This change may incur similar cost, as Apple are forcing Sign in with Apple on _any_ app submitted to the appstore with third party login support, which is a crazy number of apps. You have a "Sign in with Facebook" button on your iOS app today? Guess what, you have to add a "Sign in with Apple" button or you don't get to play on Apple's store. Many of these apps also ship on Android, and users will rightly expect the account they created on one device to work on another.
      - basch 7y ago
        It would be foolish for a developer to add Sign in with Apple to their iOS app and not their Android app. If a developer did something so stupid its their fault, not Apples, for users not being able to sign in from Android devices.
      - themanr 7y ago
        > But the "Sign in with Facebook" button didn't appear by magic on the Android app, did it? Someone had to add support to their app for it. It would be nice if you could add an identity provider to your OS and the app could ask the OS to identify you using your provider of choice for that application.
  - dstaley 7y ago
    I imagine it would be the same as logging in with any other OAuth provider. I highly doubt Apple would lock people out of the ability to sign in with their Apple ID on the web, and if you can sign in on the web, you can sign in on Android. What remains to be seen is if they'll provide an Android SDK as well. Edit: from the developer docs "Sign In with Apple works natively on iOS, macOS, tvOS, and watchOS. And it works in any browser, which means you can deploy it on your website and in versions of your apps running on other platforms."
- graeme 7y ago
  You need 2fa to use sign in with apple. That requires an apple device. Dunno how apple will handle it if someone sells their only apple device and no longe4 has 2fa. (Unclear how this works now, it’s an issue with apple 2fa even without signin with apple)
0x0 7y ago
I'm having a hard time believing Apple hasn't considered the lock-in effect of Sign In With Apple to be just like the lock-in effect of iMessages.
- gwd 7y ago
  One of the worst things that could happen to the Apple ecosystem would be for them to gain real dominance, either in phones or in the desktop / laptop space. Then all these "integrations" which are harmless / annoying nudges would suddenly become clear abuses of a monopoly position.
  - photojosh 7y ago
    I agree. But do you have a plausible scenario for how Apple will "gain real dominance"? I can't see it happening anytime soon.
erikpukinskis 7y ago
If iMessage group chats are any indication, you just lose your access to that identity. Notifications meant for it will silently fail to be delivered, and you will need to create a new identity outside of Apple’s ecosystem and inform any groups still using your old identity that you have a new one.

by giobox 7y ago

Someone 7y ago

”How does customer sign in and keep their same account on the new phone?” I would guess by keeping their Apple ID. AFAIK, you don’t have to buy anything from Apple to get one. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204316 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204316: ”An Apple ID is the account you use to access Apple services like iCloud, the App Store, the iTunes Store, Apple Music, and more. It includes the email address and password that you use to sign in” https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204316#web https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204316#web: ”Use a web browser If you need to create an Apple ID on your device — including your Android device or Apple TV — you can usually follow the steps provided when you set up your device or Apple service for the first time”

giobox 7y ago
And how do they login on the Android phone with the Apple ID with no changes to the Android app? That's the question OP didn't understand and which your reply completely ignores. While this is an iOS change, it will have effects beyond just iOS. I think most of us are fully aware an Apple ID survives even if you have no Apple devices without recourse to Apple help links.
- keymone 7y ago
  Facebook doesn't control Android yet people are able to login using "Sign in with Facebook" button on Android phones.
  - giobox 7y ago
    Of course. But the "Sign in with Facebook" button didn't appear by magic on the Android app, did it? Someone had to add support to their app for it. This change may incur similar cost, as Apple are forcing Sign in with Apple on _any_ app submitted to the appstore with third party login support, which is a crazy number of apps. You have a "Sign in with Facebook" button on your iOS app today? Guess what, you have to add a "Sign in with Apple" button or you don't get to play on Apple's store. Many of these apps also ship on Android, and users will rightly expect the account they created on one device to work on another.
    - basch 7y ago
      It would be foolish for a developer to add Sign in with Apple to their iOS app and not their Android app. If a developer did something so stupid its their fault, not Apples, for users not being able to sign in from Android devices.
    - themanr 7y ago
      > But the "Sign in with Facebook" button didn't appear by magic on the Android app, did it? Someone had to add support to their app for it. It would be nice if you could add an identity provider to your OS and the app could ask the OS to identify you using your provider of choice for that application.
- dstaley 7y ago
  I imagine it would be the same as logging in with any other OAuth provider. I highly doubt Apple would lock people out of the ability to sign in with their Apple ID on the web, and if you can sign in on the web, you can sign in on Android. What remains to be seen is if they'll provide an Android SDK as well. Edit: from the developer docs "Sign In with Apple works natively on iOS, macOS, tvOS, and watchOS. And it works in any browser, which means you can deploy it on your website and in versions of your apps running on other platforms."
graeme 7y ago
You need 2fa to use sign in with apple. That requires an apple device. Dunno how apple will handle it if someone sells their only apple device and no longe4 has 2fa. (Unclear how this works now, it’s an issue with apple 2fa even without signin with apple)

0x0 7y ago

I'm having a hard time believing Apple hasn't considered the lock-in effect of Sign In With Apple to be just like the lock-in effect of iMessages.

gwd 7y ago
One of the worst things that could happen to the Apple ecosystem would be for them to gain real dominance, either in phones or in the desktop / laptop space. Then all these "integrations" which are harmless / annoying nudges would suddenly become clear abuses of a monopoly position.
- photojosh 7y ago
  I agree. But do you have a plausible scenario for how Apple will "gain real dominance"? I can't see it happening anytime soon.

erikpukinskis 7y ago

If iMessage group chats are any indication, you just lose your access to that identity. Notifications meant for it will silently fail to be delivered, and you will need to create a new identity outside of Apple’s ecosystem and inform any groups still using your old identity that you have a new one.