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One must consider the fact that any conclusions drawn from state archives or on-the-ground investigations will be seen as biased one way or the other. Any evide

One must consider the fact that any conclusions drawn from state archives or on-the-ground investigations will be seen as biased one way or the other. Any evidence which exonerates the CCP will be accused of being manipulated CCP propaganda. Any evidence hinting otherwise will be accused of being pro-West fabrications. "Independent", multinational investigations are not immune either, for instance in the case of Iran and the International Atomic Energy Agency inspections [1]. All you end up doing is preserving the status quo. With the dearth of physical evidence, an objective conclusion will likely remain out of reach. Something definitely happened, and something bad. But to the extent of grinding up the bodies of 10,000 civilians into meat patties and hosing them down the drain bad? It is likely that we will never know the answer to that. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/22/nuclear-watchdog-iran-iaea https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/22/nuclear-watchd...

CharlesColeman 7y ago
> With the dearth of physical evidence, an objective conclusion will likely remain out of reach. Something definitely happened, and something bad. But to the extent of grinding up the bodies of 10,000 civilians into meat patties and hosing them down the drain bad? It is likely that we will never know the answer to that. I disagree. These events are still within living memory, so most of the actual people who were tasked with suppressing the protests and cleaning up afterwards can still theoretically be interviewed. Given the scale and brutality, at least some of them likely feel shame for participating and would testify honestly help clear their consciences (e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/28/world/asia/china-tiananmen-square-massacre.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/28/world/asia/china-tiananme...). Many others may have hidden diaries or other records (e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/world/asia/tiananmen-square-protest-photos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/world/asia/tiananmen-squa...). These events also happened in a dense urban area, so there were many uninvolved witnesses. If the political situation allowed all these accounts to be collected and cross-checked, I think we'd know these answers.

CharlesColeman 7y ago

> With the dearth of physical evidence, an objective conclusion will likely remain out of reach. Something definitely happened, and something bad. But to the extent of grinding up the bodies of 10,000 civilians into meat patties and hosing them down the drain bad? It is likely that we will never know the answer to that. I disagree. These events are still within living memory, so most of the actual people who were tasked with suppressing the protests and cleaning up afterwards can still theoretically be interviewed. Given the scale and brutality, at least some of them likely feel shame for participating and would testify honestly help clear their consciences (e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/28/world/asia/china-tiananmen-square-massacre.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/28/world/asia/china-tiananme...). Many others may have hidden diaries or other records (e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/world/asia/tiananmen-square-protest-photos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/world/asia/tiananmen-squa...). These events also happened in a dense urban area, so there were many uninvolved witnesses. If the political situation allowed all these accounts to be collected and cross-checked, I think we'd know these answers.