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Who’s Afraid of Arabic Numerals?

9 points by Edmond 7y ago

linuxftw 7y ago
Arabic Numerals as Americans understand them are representative of the characters used when writing in Arabic. The term is ambiguous. So, this article is frivolous.
- Edmond 7y ago
  I think the point of the survey was to gauge prejudice as opposed to determining if people knew the difference between numbers written in Arabic versus Arabic Numerals (Base 10 number system). I suspect the biased responses were of the knee-jerk variety, meaning they didn't even have the curiosity to determine what Arabic numerals actually meant.
  - linuxftw 7y ago
    I think the point of the survey was to write an inflammatory article picking on ignorant Americans. "numbers written in Arabic" is the same as "Arabic Numerals" because that's what "Arabic Numerals" means to Americans without any additional context. We don't have an everyday term for western-style numbers, but you can draw context for "X Numerials" from "Roman Numerals" which clearly indicates a different character set for representing numerical values.
    - FullyFunctional 7y ago
      Inflammatory? Nobody forced them to answer "no" even if they ignorantly didn't know that numeric digits are called Arabic numerals. You cannot argue in good faith that the pool didn't expose intolerance. I can't see any argument for denying the teaching of anything outside of falsehoods. Teaching is supposed to be about learning something new, typically outside your comfort zone.
      - linuxftw 7y ago
        What you seem to be missing is the average person does not call them "Arabic numerals." Additionally, it's 100% valid to call numbers written in Arabic characters "Arabic numerals." We can't draw any conclusion from this survey, but despite this, the author decides to make all sorts of inferences. Because this survey appears to be entirely useless on the face of it, I think it was designed especially for some sort of confirmation-bias rather than testing an actual hypothesis. Show me the corresponding survey for "Japanese Numerals" and then we can have an actual discussion. While you're at it, show me the survey for non-Americans asked the same question.
        FullyFunctional 7y ago
        In my primary education we (me and my other average students) were taught that they are "Arbic numberals". But you are insisting on ignoring the point entirely. Had the question been about "Japanese Numerals" the answer should still have been "YES!"
        linuxftw 7y ago
        For what? There's no utility for learning Japanese characters for most Americans. I can come up with a very long list of things people should know how to read before I get to foreign-language character sets.
- hsk823 7y ago
  The term most certainly isn't ambiguous, if anything it's very specific. Now the question itself being frivolous because it neglects to state that Arabic numbers are the worldwide numerical standard today is debatable, but the intent was to see the bias against the word Arabic.
russellbeattie 7y ago
Yeah, yeah, a bunch of Americans are ignorant xenophobes, we know. But just to add, I much prefer the term "Hindu-Arabic" as it gives proper credit to both the creators and influencers of the numeral system (specifically, thinking of zero as a number in itself, and as a digit). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu%E2%80%93Arabic_numeral_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu%E2%80%93Arabic_numeral...
Edmond 7y ago
Veep's Jonah Ryan definitely is afraid of them :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embMAtagQiU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embMAtagQiU
- 27182818284 7y ago
  Yes, Veep's writers have joked they've had a hard time writing things that would be, well, something you wouldn't find in real life—something completely ridiculous even in the current state of politics. When they're character running for President of the United States rails against Arabic numerals. Snopes actually collected fake or satirical pieces about politicians being against Arabic numerals at least as far back as 2016 it looks like.
FullyFunctional 7y ago
EDIT: I was wrong.
- apta 7y ago
  > that while the Arabs writes numbers like they write text, right-to-left Incorrect. Arabs write numbers left to right.
  - FullyFunctional 7y ago
    Thank you, I was wrong
throw55 7y ago
I'll just leave it at this http://www.rahmahmuslimhomeschool.co.uk/index/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/poster-preview.jpg http://www.rahmahmuslimhomeschool.co.uk/index/wp-content/upl... It's fairly reasonable for someone who doesn't know the term 'arabic numbers' to assume that he's asked about style of number writing as currently practiced in the arabic countries.
stunt 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals#Origins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals#Origins

9 points by Edmond 7y ago

Arabic Numerals as Americans understand them are representative of the characters used when writing in Arabic. The term is ambiguous. So, this article is frivolous.

Edmond 7y ago
I think the point of the survey was to gauge prejudice as opposed to determining if people knew the difference between numbers written in Arabic versus Arabic Numerals (Base 10 number system). I suspect the biased responses were of the knee-jerk variety, meaning they didn't even have the curiosity to determine what Arabic numerals actually meant.
- linuxftw 7y ago
  I think the point of the survey was to write an inflammatory article picking on ignorant Americans. "numbers written in Arabic" is the same as "Arabic Numerals" because that's what "Arabic Numerals" means to Americans without any additional context. We don't have an everyday term for western-style numbers, but you can draw context for "X Numerials" from "Roman Numerals" which clearly indicates a different character set for representing numerical values.
  - FullyFunctional 7y ago
    Inflammatory? Nobody forced them to answer "no" even if they ignorantly didn't know that numeric digits are called Arabic numerals. You cannot argue in good faith that the pool didn't expose intolerance. I can't see any argument for denying the teaching of anything outside of falsehoods. Teaching is supposed to be about learning something new, typically outside your comfort zone.
    - linuxftw 7y ago
      What you seem to be missing is the average person does not call them "Arabic numerals." Additionally, it's 100% valid to call numbers written in Arabic characters "Arabic numerals." We can't draw any conclusion from this survey, but despite this, the author decides to make all sorts of inferences. Because this survey appears to be entirely useless on the face of it, I think it was designed especially for some sort of confirmation-bias rather than testing an actual hypothesis. Show me the corresponding survey for "Japanese Numerals" and then we can have an actual discussion. While you're at it, show me the survey for non-Americans asked the same question.
      - FullyFunctional 7y ago
        In my primary education we (me and my other average students) were taught that they are "Arbic numberals". But you are insisting on ignoring the point entirely. Had the question been about "Japanese Numerals" the answer should still have been "YES!"
        linuxftw 7y ago
        For what? There's no utility for learning Japanese characters for most Americans. I can come up with a very long list of things people should know how to read before I get to foreign-language character sets.
hsk823 7y ago
The term most certainly isn't ambiguous, if anything it's very specific. Now the question itself being frivolous because it neglects to state that Arabic numbers are the worldwide numerical standard today is debatable, but the intent was to see the bias against the word Arabic.

russellbeattie 7y ago

Yeah, yeah, a bunch of Americans are ignorant xenophobes, we know. But just to add, I much prefer the term "Hindu-Arabic" as it gives proper credit to both the creators and influencers of the numeral system (specifically, thinking of zero as a number in itself, and as a digit). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu%E2%80%93Arabic_numeral_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu%E2%80%93Arabic_numeral...

Edmond 7y ago

Veep's Jonah Ryan definitely is afraid of them :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embMAtagQiU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embMAtagQiU

27182818284 7y ago
Yes, Veep's writers have joked they've had a hard time writing things that would be, well, something you wouldn't find in real life—something completely ridiculous even in the current state of politics. When they're character running for President of the United States rails against Arabic numerals. Snopes actually collected fake or satirical pieces about politicians being against Arabic numerals at least as far back as 2016 it looks like.

FullyFunctional 7y ago

EDIT: I was wrong.

apta 7y ago
> that while the Arabs writes numbers like they write text, right-to-left Incorrect. Arabs write numbers left to right.
- FullyFunctional 7y ago
  Thank you, I was wrong

throw55 7y ago

I'll just leave it at this http://www.rahmahmuslimhomeschool.co.uk/index/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/poster-preview.jpg http://www.rahmahmuslimhomeschool.co.uk/index/wp-content/upl... It's fairly reasonable for someone who doesn't know the term 'arabic numbers' to assume that he's asked about style of number writing as currently practiced in the arabic countries.

stunt 7y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals#Origins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals#Origins