4 ms·

The Sun follows the rhythm of the planets

63 points by conse_lad 7y ago

steve76 7y ago
Great! Cure cancer or all money goes BYE BYE You know what, CURE ALL DISEASE OR DIE IT HAS BEEN SOCRATICALLY WRITTEN ...
dvtrn 7y ago
I was thinking to myself as I began reading "I bet Jupiter has something to do with this, I just know it" present new findings, indicating that the tidal forces of Venus, Earth and Jupiter influence the solar magnetic field Gravitational and tidal forces are such fascinating things to read about as we find new ways of measuring the phenomena
fxj 7y ago
More about the Tayler Instability: https://www.hzdr.de/db/Cms?pOid=55138&pNid=226&pLang=en https://www.hzdr.de/db/Cms?pOid=55138&pNid=226&pLang=en The Tayler instability is known to limit the scalability of liquid metal batteries. Whenever an electric current flows through a liquid conductor, the Tayler instability may appear. If the electric current exceeds a value in the order of kiloampère (depending on the material), it will drive a fluid flow. The plasma of the sun behaves like a magnetized highly conducting fluid. (Magneto-Hydrodynamics)
jchrisa 7y ago
So you can use magnetic field information about a star to learn more about the planets (tidal forces) orbiting it?
- dvtrn 7y ago
  Yup! That and gravitational forces specifically are how we discovered Neptune-and, IIRC the exact same phenomenon has some scientists theorizing the existence of another planet or some other large gravitational mass way out in the Kuiper belt https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/0004-6256/151/2/22/meta https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/0004-6256/151/2/2...
  - strainer 7y ago
    Apologies for being pedantic but the link contains no mention of magnetic field information and Neptune's discovery would not have taken this into account either. Im fairly sure this has been done so far by analysing orbits in different ways, but Ive never heard of perturbations in solar system wide electro-magnetism (within solar wind) taken into account, or if that could be possible and effective to model in detail.
    - dvtrn 7y ago
      Perhaps I phrased my post poorly there and caused some confusion: I was trying to relay some supplemental information that just as tidal forces and their study are revealing new things about Sol, so were studies of tidal forces and gravitational mechanics instrumental in the discovery of other stellar masses in our solar system.
chiefalchemist 7y ago
And now I wonder what of earth's quirks (?) are driven or influenced by our position relative to the other planets, as well as our moon. Furthermore, is a planet's ability to sustain life also a function of other planets in that solar system? Perhaps, at that level, the earth's system (if you will) is more unique than we realize?
- andrewflnr 7y ago
  > Perhaps, at that level, the earth's system (if you will) is more unique than we realize? That would surprise me, given how robust Earth life already has to be. I mean, it wasn't fun, but Earth "sustained life" through several massive volcanic events, giant meteors, and climatic changes, to say nothing of magnetic pole reversals, et al. It seems that once life gets going, it can tolerate a lot of crap.
  - chiefalchemist 7y ago
    Or. Life is a by-product or at least a beneficiary of all that crap (i.e., what doesn't kill you makes you strong). That is, just because a planet can sustain life doesn't mean that planet's history would generate life. There may be a gazillion earth-like planets, but that doesn't mean life is possible on that attribute alone.
- mgsouth 7y ago
  Here's a simulation, by Kevin R. Grazier at JPL, which claims that large outer planets, rather than shielding inner planets from debris, help life-bearing conditions by kicking ice-bearing comets inward. Blurb on phys.org: https://phys.org/news/2016-02-jupiter-role-planetary-shield-earth.html https://phys.org/news/2016-02-jupiter-role-planetary-shield-... Abstract with paywalled paper ($51!) https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ast.2015.1321?journalCode=ast https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ast.2015.1321?jou... Non-paywalled article found (Italian site, looks legit?) https://www.media.inaf.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/ast2E20152E1321.pdf https://www.media.inaf.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/ast2E20...
ncmncm 7y ago
I am most impressed that they are able to model the sun's surface activity well enough to see a match; and that effects from the interior are tiny enough that tides can overcome them.

63 points by conse_lad 7y ago

Great! Cure cancer or all money goes BYE BYE You know what, CURE ALL DISEASE OR DIE IT HAS BEEN SOCRATICALLY WRITTEN ...

dvtrn 7y ago

I was thinking to myself as I began reading "I bet Jupiter has something to do with this, I just know it" present new findings, indicating that the tidal forces of Venus, Earth and Jupiter influence the solar magnetic field Gravitational and tidal forces are such fascinating things to read about as we find new ways of measuring the phenomena

fxj 7y ago

More about the Tayler Instability: https://www.hzdr.de/db/Cms?pOid=55138&pNid=226&pLang=en https://www.hzdr.de/db/Cms?pOid=55138&pNid=226&pLang=en The Tayler instability is known to limit the scalability of liquid metal batteries. Whenever an electric current flows through a liquid conductor, the Tayler instability may appear. If the electric current exceeds a value in the order of kiloampère (depending on the material), it will drive a fluid flow. The plasma of the sun behaves like a magnetized highly conducting fluid. (Magneto-Hydrodynamics)

jchrisa 7y ago

So you can use magnetic field information about a star to learn more about the planets (tidal forces) orbiting it?

dvtrn 7y ago
Yup! That and gravitational forces specifically are how we discovered Neptune-and, IIRC the exact same phenomenon has some scientists theorizing the existence of another planet or some other large gravitational mass way out in the Kuiper belt https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/0004-6256/151/2/22/meta https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/0004-6256/151/2/2...
- strainer 7y ago
  Apologies for being pedantic but the link contains no mention of magnetic field information and Neptune's discovery would not have taken this into account either. Im fairly sure this has been done so far by analysing orbits in different ways, but Ive never heard of perturbations in solar system wide electro-magnetism (within solar wind) taken into account, or if that could be possible and effective to model in detail.
  - dvtrn 7y ago
    Perhaps I phrased my post poorly there and caused some confusion: I was trying to relay some supplemental information that just as tidal forces and their study are revealing new things about Sol, so were studies of tidal forces and gravitational mechanics instrumental in the discovery of other stellar masses in our solar system.

chiefalchemist 7y ago

And now I wonder what of earth's quirks (?) are driven or influenced by our position relative to the other planets, as well as our moon. Furthermore, is a planet's ability to sustain life also a function of other planets in that solar system? Perhaps, at that level, the earth's system (if you will) is more unique than we realize?

andrewflnr 7y ago
> Perhaps, at that level, the earth's system (if you will) is more unique than we realize? That would surprise me, given how robust Earth life already has to be. I mean, it wasn't fun, but Earth "sustained life" through several massive volcanic events, giant meteors, and climatic changes, to say nothing of magnetic pole reversals, et al. It seems that once life gets going, it can tolerate a lot of crap.
- chiefalchemist 7y ago
  Or. Life is a by-product or at least a beneficiary of all that crap (i.e., what doesn't kill you makes you strong). That is, just because a planet can sustain life doesn't mean that planet's history would generate life. There may be a gazillion earth-like planets, but that doesn't mean life is possible on that attribute alone.
mgsouth 7y ago
Here's a simulation, by Kevin R. Grazier at JPL, which claims that large outer planets, rather than shielding inner planets from debris, help life-bearing conditions by kicking ice-bearing comets inward. Blurb on phys.org: https://phys.org/news/2016-02-jupiter-role-planetary-shield-earth.html https://phys.org/news/2016-02-jupiter-role-planetary-shield-... Abstract with paywalled paper ($51!) https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ast.2015.1321?journalCode=ast https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ast.2015.1321?jou... Non-paywalled article found (Italian site, looks legit?) https://www.media.inaf.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/ast2E20152E1321.pdf https://www.media.inaf.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/ast2E20...

ncmncm 7y ago

I am most impressed that they are able to model the sun's surface activity well enough to see a match; and that effects from the interior are tiny enough that tides can overcome them.