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Given that Tesla can supply those credits owing to its role as the first car producer to massively push EV over ICE technology and hence not produce common cost
by thenaturalist 7y ago
Given that Tesla can supply those credits owing to its role as the first car producer to massively push EV over ICE technology and hence not produce common costs (CO2 emissions), this is a statement about Tesla and its position in the car industry in my book.
It's not a technological breakthrough, but in a world where common costs will be more factored into the balance sheets of those who create them, the fact that Tesla can be on the sell side of this and the trend to further quantify those costs might position them well.
- yostrovs 7y agoIt's not a technological achievement. It's a political one, as the middle class gets to subsidize the autopilot of the upper class, while the upper class gets to feel smug as though it's saving the world.
- codedokode 7y agoOr you can look from the other side: people who buy cars that pollute air pay for the development of better cars.
- benj111 7y agoThe whole point is it's not a subsidy, it's properly assigning costs. Up until now ICE manufacturers and users havent being paying for the full costs of that technology, everyone has been subsidising them, this is designed to cancel that subsidy out.
- reitzensteinm 7y agoIt's better assigning costs, but still bad. A carbon tax is really the only way that works. Society subsidized $10k on a Tesla purchase for someone to commute to work, but offered no incentive to take public transport, carpool or work remotely. It's a shame that it's such a hard sell politically.
- benj111 7y agoTrue, but don't let good be the enemy of perfect. For a potential car buyer, this is a good incentive to steer them towards better choices. Btw, it isn't society subsidising Tesla, its GM and Fiat Crysler customers. Or are you talking about tax credits? Perhaps? But on the other hand they were still paying more than what an equivalent ICE car would cost, so it isn't a free ride for them either. In the end society hopefully gets a sustainable EV industry, at a lower cost than if the government had done it themselves, isn't that what we should be comparing it against?
- xienze 7y ago> Btw, it isn't society subsidising Tesla It isn't? Who paid for that $7500 tax credit?
- reitzensteinm 7y agoIt is society subsidizing Tesla, because the negative externalities of GM and Fiat customers are both borne by everyone, but the transfer payments in compensation are paid to Tesla, not society as a whole. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, and if we can't get a carbon tax I'll take what I can get. But let's call a spade a spade. I do think we are missing out in a big way by not tipping the balance of hybrid TCO (eg a Camry) from slightly above to slightly below their equivalent models. Even a small tax could do that and it would make a much bigger difference than EVs have to date (but of course not in the long run).
- magwa101 7y agoTech always starts at the high end, then comes down to everyone. R&D has to be subsidized some how, this is the common cycle. With wars over oil, pollution, environmental destruction it seems like we've all been subsidizing our desire for cheap energy for sometime. Credits appear to be a lot more efficient to me.
- jrochkind1 7y agoIf it _worked_ to reduce our overall carbon emissions, I wouldn't see this as a problem. As right now the pain of future generations is "subsidizing" our cheap energy and technology -- and as the shit hits the fan, I guarantee the rich will still be the most insulated from the pain by their wealth. We got to find some way to deal with climate change and our destruction of the environment, and any way is going to make energy and tech more expensive for everyone. Because it is cheaper to not worry about the devastation we are wreaking."externalized costs". I just don't think it really works, it's just financial games in which the rich, as usual, profit the most. The owners of GM and Fiat Chrysler as much as the owners of Tesla.
- mrfredward 7y agoIf you can afford a brand new SUV, you can afford to pay the costs of your pollution.
- bryanlarsen 7y agoIt's an expedient choice. A more efficient mechanism would be to use a carbon tax to fully capture the externalities of energy use so that the market makes decisions with full information. But $10 or $20 per gallon gas would lead to riots in the streets.
- jlj 7y agoI'd ride my bike everywhere at that price.
- b1daly 7y agoThe middle class enjoy the benefits of subsidies to the oil industry already. They are also getting cheaper prices due to the political resistance of including the costs of atmospheric carbon dioxide to the planet. If the middle class would be willing to pay a carbon tax, then the current system would be needed.
- bryanlarsen 7y agoI believe you meant to say "then the current system wouldn't be needed".
- jiveturkey 7y agoWhat you meant to say is that finally, politics has achieved something. The externalities of ICE are finally being paid for by the users of ICE.
- notaki 7y agoThe middle class can buy Model 3s and get the tax credit as well. And the top 25% paid 85.97% of total income tax in 2016. So I think you have it backwards.