4 ms·

But what's the point of paternity testing if it's not within the frame of a legal procedure? And if there's a legal procedure, then it's legal.

TomMarius 7y ago
Why do you care that someone wants to pay for the test? Just let them
- justinclift 7y ago
  It can generate privacy issues for all of their relatives, depending on who has access to the data afterwards. :(
  - busymom0 7y ago
    I think that's just an excuse they use. It's not hard for government to do the test, get the result about whether someone is the parent or not and then completely delete the data.
    - seszett 7y ago
      But that's how it happens in France already, and I think people here are arguing for allowing private testing instead?
  - x220 7y ago
    Wouldn't these same privacy issues come up if someone submitted their own DNA for an ancestry test? And yet, these tests are not illegal.
    - busymom0 7y ago
      In France, those ancestry tests are illegal too.
- seszett 7y ago
  It's not about what I care about, my question is what is the person supposed to do once they get the results of their private test, and they show they're not the father? Another issue to me is that they must have provided the DNA of their child to a private entity (probably without telling the mother either) and I'm not sure I like that.
  - grandmczeb 7y ago
    > what is the person supposed to do once they get the results of their private test, and they show they're not the father? Initiate a divorce?
  - x220 7y ago
    >what is the person supposed to do once they get the results of their private test The person is not "supposed to do" anything. It's the norm to let people make free, unrestricted choices as long as all parties involved consent. You generally need a good reason to restrict these activities in Western culture. >Another issue to me is that they must have provided the DNA of their child to a private entity (probably without telling the mother either) and I'm not sure I like that. In most countries parents are allowed to do all these things. Why change parental rights merely in the case of paternity tests?
busymom0 7y ago
As a parent, if you caught your SO cheating on you, you would probably also want to check if the kid is yours or not before divorce. Last thing you would want to have to do is paying child support for a kid which came from your SO cheating and not yours.
- seszett 7y ago
  > you would probably also want to check if the kid is yours or not before divorce Why? If you have doubts, then the DNA test will be ordered in the divorce proceedings.
  - busymom0 7y ago
    It's also a chicken egg problem though. Like maybe if you are suspicious and do the DNA test to find out that the kid is in fact yours, maybe you won't get divorced. I just think that the government should get out of people's private married lives.
  - x220 7y ago
    It raises the costs of paternity testing. Instead of privately, cheaply performing a test, you have to do it publicly and expensively. This de facto stops many men from performing tests, which is significant and not something you can just dismiss. Legal restrictions on consensual activity is not normal and needs a good justification for it. It's the norm to be free to do as you please as long as all parties involved consent. Maybe you want to figure out if the child is genetically yours before you initiate divorce.
    - seszett 7y ago
      The legal costs of a divorce are not very high in France (I should know) justice is quite different from the US. And a legal paternity test is 150€, which is cheaper than what most private labs offer. > consensual activity > all parties involved consent Well that's the crux of it, indeed. Most private testing is not done in a consensual way because that would require the assent of the child, which is likely minor, meaning it requires the assent of both its legal parents. If you have the assent of both the father and mother, it's easy (and free) to ask a court to allow the testing.
dgoldstein0 7y ago
"Luke, I think I'm your father" doesn't have the same ring to it...
YayamiOmate 7y ago
So, if someone is not sure, you want them to force them to go to court. That makes things practically public, and more costly. Btw. This feels kinda like defending the right to privacy. I thought republic feels strong about freedom of individual... and this seems to be an unnecessary restriction.
- seszett 7y ago
  The French Republic is (on paper) all about optimising outcomes for the community as a whole, with individual freedoms coming second to that. I think few countries other than the US place individual freedoms above national interest.
  - x220 7y ago
    Here are some general costs of this policy: * it weakens trust in the institution of marriage * many men are financially responsible for children they would not be responsible for otherwise * many men are emotionally invested in children and relationships they might not be invested in otherwise, to the possible detriment of their (generally shaky) mental health before, during, and after divorce * it reduces the penalties for infidelity, which may have an effect on people's behavior
    - seszett 7y ago
      Just a few things on your points, men are still financially responsible for children they have raised, even if they are not genetically related. Most people think it's the right thing, too. Infidelity is not illegal either, by the way, there's no penalty for it because the state doesn't have a say in who sleeps with who. Of course it's a cause for divorce though. In the end, no matter what might happen to the parents, the justice system is all about the interests of the children. It might not always be fair to the father or the mother, but if it's better for the kid then that's how it is.
      - YorkshireSeason 7y ago
dagw 7y ago
I suppose you might want to check if the kid is yours before you start the legal procedures since the result of the test will greatly affect what your optimal strategy would be. Of course the question of doing DNA testing on an unsuspecting minor without their consent or the consent of both their parents is a different kettle of fish.
nnq 7y ago
...the point is to gain knowledge of something. It's nobody's goddam problem what I choose to do with that knowledge! Thinking the way you do violates the core principle that knowledge can't "have purpose", knowledge of any kind, no matter how trivial is itself the purpose of everything or anything! Violate this and we're back on the train to the dark-ages, bie-bie enlightenment and all the good stuff the benefited humanity ever since... "Knowledge as purpose, not means" has been the core drive of humanity's progress, remove this and all the shiny tech we have can instantly be turned into simply tools of oppression and destruction for profit.

TomMarius 7y ago

Why do you care that someone wants to pay for the test? Just let them

justinclift 7y ago
It can generate privacy issues for all of their relatives, depending on who has access to the data afterwards. :(
- busymom0 7y ago
  I think that's just an excuse they use. It's not hard for government to do the test, get the result about whether someone is the parent or not and then completely delete the data.
  - seszett 7y ago
    But that's how it happens in France already, and I think people here are arguing for allowing private testing instead?
- x220 7y ago
  Wouldn't these same privacy issues come up if someone submitted their own DNA for an ancestry test? And yet, these tests are not illegal.
  - busymom0 7y ago
    In France, those ancestry tests are illegal too.
seszett 7y ago
It's not about what I care about, my question is what is the person supposed to do once they get the results of their private test, and they show they're not the father? Another issue to me is that they must have provided the DNA of their child to a private entity (probably without telling the mother either) and I'm not sure I like that.
- grandmczeb 7y ago
  > what is the person supposed to do once they get the results of their private test, and they show they're not the father? Initiate a divorce?
- x220 7y ago
  >what is the person supposed to do once they get the results of their private test The person is not "supposed to do" anything. It's the norm to let people make free, unrestricted choices as long as all parties involved consent. You generally need a good reason to restrict these activities in Western culture. >Another issue to me is that they must have provided the DNA of their child to a private entity (probably without telling the mother either) and I'm not sure I like that. In most countries parents are allowed to do all these things. Why change parental rights merely in the case of paternity tests?

busymom0 7y ago

As a parent, if you caught your SO cheating on you, you would probably also want to check if the kid is yours or not before divorce. Last thing you would want to have to do is paying child support for a kid which came from your SO cheating and not yours.

seszett 7y ago
> you would probably also want to check if the kid is yours or not before divorce Why? If you have doubts, then the DNA test will be ordered in the divorce proceedings.
- busymom0 7y ago
  It's also a chicken egg problem though. Like maybe if you are suspicious and do the DNA test to find out that the kid is in fact yours, maybe you won't get divorced. I just think that the government should get out of people's private married lives.
- x220 7y ago
  It raises the costs of paternity testing. Instead of privately, cheaply performing a test, you have to do it publicly and expensively. This de facto stops many men from performing tests, which is significant and not something you can just dismiss. Legal restrictions on consensual activity is not normal and needs a good justification for it. It's the norm to be free to do as you please as long as all parties involved consent. Maybe you want to figure out if the child is genetically yours before you initiate divorce.
  - seszett 7y ago
    The legal costs of a divorce are not very high in France (I should know) justice is quite different from the US. And a legal paternity test is 150€, which is cheaper than what most private labs offer. > consensual activity > all parties involved consent Well that's the crux of it, indeed. Most private testing is not done in a consensual way because that would require the assent of the child, which is likely minor, meaning it requires the assent of both its legal parents. If you have the assent of both the father and mother, it's easy (and free) to ask a court to allow the testing.

dgoldstein0 7y ago

"Luke, I think I'm your father" doesn't have the same ring to it...

YayamiOmate 7y ago

So, if someone is not sure, you want them to force them to go to court. That makes things practically public, and more costly. Btw. This feels kinda like defending the right to privacy. I thought republic feels strong about freedom of individual... and this seems to be an unnecessary restriction.

seszett 7y ago
The French Republic is (on paper) all about optimising outcomes for the community as a whole, with individual freedoms coming second to that. I think few countries other than the US place individual freedoms above national interest.
- x220 7y ago
  Here are some general costs of this policy: * it weakens trust in the institution of marriage * many men are financially responsible for children they would not be responsible for otherwise * many men are emotionally invested in children and relationships they might not be invested in otherwise, to the possible detriment of their (generally shaky) mental health before, during, and after divorce * it reduces the penalties for infidelity, which may have an effect on people's behavior
  - seszett 7y ago
    Just a few things on your points, men are still financially responsible for children they have raised, even if they are not genetically related. Most people think it's the right thing, too. Infidelity is not illegal either, by the way, there's no penalty for it because the state doesn't have a say in who sleeps with who. Of course it's a cause for divorce though. In the end, no matter what might happen to the parents, the justice system is all about the interests of the children. It might not always be fair to the father or the mother, but if it's better for the kid then that's how it is.
    - YorkshireSeason 7y ago

dagw 7y ago

I suppose you might want to check if the kid is yours before you start the legal procedures since the result of the test will greatly affect what your optimal strategy would be. Of course the question of doing DNA testing on an unsuspecting minor without their consent or the consent of both their parents is a different kettle of fish.

nnq 7y ago

...the point is to gain knowledge of something. It's nobody's goddam problem what I choose to do with that knowledge! Thinking the way you do violates the core principle that knowledge can't "have purpose", knowledge of any kind, no matter how trivial is itself the purpose of everything or anything! Violate this and we're back on the train to the dark-ages, bie-bie enlightenment and all the good stuff the benefited humanity ever since... "Knowledge as purpose, not means" has been the core drive of humanity's progress, remove this and all the shiny tech we have can instantly be turned into simply tools of oppression and destruction for profit.