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A well-known Youtuber called Serpentza recently made a video about how Chinese students don't assimilate into American culture and how it is made difficult for

A well-known Youtuber called Serpentza recently made a video about how Chinese students don't assimilate into American culture and how it is made difficult for them to assimilate, partly due to overt action from the Chinese government. For one thing, Chinese culture is quite alien to western culture, and I don't mean that in a judgemental way, just that their spoken, written and body language is so much different that it is automatically harder for them. It doesn't help that they are told by the educational system and state media how great China is and how bad the US. Also the students going abroad are highly selected. Not only for academic qualities, but students (or their families) who show a lack of loyalty to the state will have a tougher time even obtaining an exit visa. I wouldn't be surprised if cooperation with intelligence services in terms of spying on American universities isn't part of the deal, too.

whoevercares 7y ago
Lack of loyalty? Omg where did you hear that? I have T-shirts making fun of our leaders, how did I get abroad?
xxxpupugo 7y ago
Never heard of such thing as exit visa...
- kuzehanka 7y ago
  When you try to leave China, you're checked against a no-exit list and simply prevented from leaving if you're on it. No reason need be given to you. China currently keeps a number of political hostages this way and prevents undesirable nationals from leaving the country. Most countries try to prevent undesirables from entering, china allows them to enter and then prevents them from leaving. https://fox8.com/2019/01/03/us-warns-citizens-traveling-to-china-could-be-prevented-from-returning-home/ https://fox8.com/2019/01/03/us-warns-citizens-traveling-to-c...
  - whoevercares 7y ago
    If you managed to get on that list, congrats, you are a BIG deal and might win the next Nobel peace prize. Honestly I’ll be super proud of myself if they put me on that list (it’s probably shorter than 100 for people under 25) How long on earth do you think this exit list is?
  - rat9988 7y ago
    Don't all countries have a list of people that aren't allowed to leave because of some criminal investigation?
    - bayesian_horse 7y ago
      Not all countries apply that to dissidents. Much fewer apply this to all their relatives and many of their friends. And Chinese get refused exit visa without there being any criminal investigation.
fiblye 7y ago
So because the societies are so different and have limited contact, should we seek to cut off one of the few opportunities young people from borderline enemy countries across the world have to interact, or give them a space to interact freely? I know most Chinese students at my university kept to their in-group and never interacted with anyone else. I also know loads who found a new culture that they felt comfortable in, made new friends, and started families. Even if a bunch go home and forget about their time in America, plenty are having life-changing and potentially society-changing experiences.
- kuzehanka 7y ago
  It's not about societies being different. It's about Chinese international students engaging in blatant plagiarism, refusing to participate in classes, completely refusing to integrate, engaging in pro-chinese anti-local political activism, and basically expanding the CCPs political reach into foreign universities. This is something that all tertiary educators are painful aware of, as is the reluctance of faculty to take disciplinary action against international students because they're a major source of revenue. This is also something that is quite unique to Chinese and not other international students. The Chinese students who don't subscribe to the CCP agenda are pressured by the others. They get labelled traitors, ostracised, word gets around and their families get harassed back at home. In a nutshell, the CCP has identified inclusive societies as a soft target for remote propaganda achieved via international students. The CCP is highly selective in deciding who gets to leave the country to study abroad. This is something that couldn't even be discussed until recently because such discussions were/still are labeled as racism. Stuff like this: http://www.tibetanjournal.com/tibetan-girl-wins-university-election-chinese-students-protest/ http://www.tibetanjournal.com/tibetan-girl-wins-university-e... If AU/US international students tried to do anything like this in China, they'd be deported in the following few days but not before getting death threats and having their entire family doxxed and harassed.
  - fiblye 7y ago
    >unique to Chinese and not other international students. It’s really not. All wealthy international students are getting passed with As and pats on the back for cheating and doing no real work. It just seems worse with Chinese because they currently make up most of the foreign student base. And political activism and silencing others on behalf of the CCP is an issue, but I’ve seen disproportionately way more student groups and public complaints in favor of a certain middle eastern country.
Hasknewbie 7y ago
> For one thing, Chinese culture is quite alien to western culture, and I don't mean that in a judgemental way, just that their spoken, written and body language is so much different that it is automatically harder for them. I call BS on that one specific point with a counter-example: Taiwan (regardless of if it is/isn't part of China, it's a majority-Chinese-culture country). I would agree though that students allowed to study at foreign universities are somewhat selected, in that the CCP forbids travels for 'tendentious' individuals. No doubt they would enjoy having "highly selected" ones, but they're just using basics metrics covering way too many candidates for that to be effective.
_lessthan0 7y ago
For one thing, Chinese culture is quite alien to western culture, and I don't mean that in a judgmental way, just that their spoken, written and body language is so much different that it is automatically harder for them. It doesn't help that they are told by the educational system and state media how great China is and how bad the US. This is like me studying in the UK, meeting or bumping into US students. Very loud, aggressive because they cant handle alcohol, very arrogant. It also doesn't help that they are told by their educational system and gov that they are the greatest, the land of the free and can do what ever they please if they 'work' hard for it. Also how the US is the master nation of the world, that they are the world police.
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  Funny, I find brits in the USA to be loud and poor at handling their drink. Some of the most self-centered people around. But stereotypes only hurt.
  - _lessthan0 7y ago
    Thankfully I am not British. Both are loud and obnoxious in their own way. Just find people from Europe more tolerable.
- bayesian_horse 7y ago
  In Europe we generally see more drunken Brits, especially in the typical vacation spots. But I'd never say they have worse character or more prone to drunken bad behavior than others. It's almost always a selection bias, where a certain type of people is drawn to a certain place.
msie 7y ago
I don’t know what you are arguing for but let’s have some perspective here. Chinese people have been immigrating to North America for over a hundred years and have been successful despite differences in culture etc. It was more difficult back then too.
- bayesian_horse 7y ago
  I didn't say it's impossible or doesn't happen. With the Chinese foreign students it just seems to happen a lot less and that seems to be by design.

whoevercares 7y ago

Lack of loyalty? Omg where did you hear that? I have T-shirts making fun of our leaders, how did I get abroad?

xxxpupugo 7y ago

Never heard of such thing as exit visa...

kuzehanka 7y ago
When you try to leave China, you're checked against a no-exit list and simply prevented from leaving if you're on it. No reason need be given to you. China currently keeps a number of political hostages this way and prevents undesirable nationals from leaving the country. Most countries try to prevent undesirables from entering, china allows them to enter and then prevents them from leaving. https://fox8.com/2019/01/03/us-warns-citizens-traveling-to-china-could-be-prevented-from-returning-home/ https://fox8.com/2019/01/03/us-warns-citizens-traveling-to-c...
- whoevercares 7y ago
  If you managed to get on that list, congrats, you are a BIG deal and might win the next Nobel peace prize. Honestly I’ll be super proud of myself if they put me on that list (it’s probably shorter than 100 for people under 25) How long on earth do you think this exit list is?
- rat9988 7y ago
  Don't all countries have a list of people that aren't allowed to leave because of some criminal investigation?
  - bayesian_horse 7y ago
    Not all countries apply that to dissidents. Much fewer apply this to all their relatives and many of their friends. And Chinese get refused exit visa without there being any criminal investigation.

fiblye 7y ago

So because the societies are so different and have limited contact, should we seek to cut off one of the few opportunities young people from borderline enemy countries across the world have to interact, or give them a space to interact freely? I know most Chinese students at my university kept to their in-group and never interacted with anyone else. I also know loads who found a new culture that they felt comfortable in, made new friends, and started families. Even if a bunch go home and forget about their time in America, plenty are having life-changing and potentially society-changing experiences.

kuzehanka 7y ago
It's not about societies being different. It's about Chinese international students engaging in blatant plagiarism, refusing to participate in classes, completely refusing to integrate, engaging in pro-chinese anti-local political activism, and basically expanding the CCPs political reach into foreign universities. This is something that all tertiary educators are painful aware of, as is the reluctance of faculty to take disciplinary action against international students because they're a major source of revenue. This is also something that is quite unique to Chinese and not other international students. The Chinese students who don't subscribe to the CCP agenda are pressured by the others. They get labelled traitors, ostracised, word gets around and their families get harassed back at home. In a nutshell, the CCP has identified inclusive societies as a soft target for remote propaganda achieved via international students. The CCP is highly selective in deciding who gets to leave the country to study abroad. This is something that couldn't even be discussed until recently because such discussions were/still are labeled as racism. Stuff like this: http://www.tibetanjournal.com/tibetan-girl-wins-university-election-chinese-students-protest/ http://www.tibetanjournal.com/tibetan-girl-wins-university-e... If AU/US international students tried to do anything like this in China, they'd be deported in the following few days but not before getting death threats and having their entire family doxxed and harassed.
- fiblye 7y ago
  >unique to Chinese and not other international students. It’s really not. All wealthy international students are getting passed with As and pats on the back for cheating and doing no real work. It just seems worse with Chinese because they currently make up most of the foreign student base. And political activism and silencing others on behalf of the CCP is an issue, but I’ve seen disproportionately way more student groups and public complaints in favor of a certain middle eastern country.

Hasknewbie 7y ago

> For one thing, Chinese culture is quite alien to western culture, and I don't mean that in a judgemental way, just that their spoken, written and body language is so much different that it is automatically harder for them. I call BS on that one specific point with a counter-example: Taiwan (regardless of if it is/isn't part of China, it's a majority-Chinese-culture country). I would agree though that students allowed to study at foreign universities are somewhat selected, in that the CCP forbids travels for 'tendentious' individuals. No doubt they would enjoy having "highly selected" ones, but they're just using basics metrics covering way too many candidates for that to be effective.

_lessthan0 7y ago

For one thing, Chinese culture is quite alien to western culture, and I don't mean that in a judgmental way, just that their spoken, written and body language is so much different that it is automatically harder for them. It doesn't help that they are told by the educational system and state media how great China is and how bad the US. This is like me studying in the UK, meeting or bumping into US students. Very loud, aggressive because they cant handle alcohol, very arrogant. It also doesn't help that they are told by their educational system and gov that they are the greatest, the land of the free and can do what ever they please if they 'work' hard for it. Also how the US is the master nation of the world, that they are the world police.

whenchamenia 7y ago
Funny, I find brits in the USA to be loud and poor at handling their drink. Some of the most self-centered people around. But stereotypes only hurt.
- _lessthan0 7y ago
  Thankfully I am not British. Both are loud and obnoxious in their own way. Just find people from Europe more tolerable.
bayesian_horse 7y ago
In Europe we generally see more drunken Brits, especially in the typical vacation spots. But I'd never say they have worse character or more prone to drunken bad behavior than others. It's almost always a selection bias, where a certain type of people is drawn to a certain place.

msie 7y ago

I don’t know what you are arguing for but let’s have some perspective here. Chinese people have been immigrating to North America for over a hundred years and have been successful despite differences in culture etc. It was more difficult back then too.

bayesian_horse 7y ago
I didn't say it's impossible or doesn't happen. With the Chinese foreign students it just seems to happen a lot less and that seems to be by design.