5 ms·

The question, is these bright minds never spent 10 years at MIT or Harvard, and instead spent it at Peking University, would be they be of the same caliber?

ulfw 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsinghua_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsinghua_University Tsinghua in Beijing is one of the world's foremost universities. A ton of Chinese leaders and also two Nobel laureates come from there.
- zwaps 7y ago
  Not that it isn't a good university, I mean I hear decent things, but two Nobel laureates is really not that much for a top university. Many local European universities have more.
  - Jommi 7y ago
    How is it not a good university? Is it solely measured on Nobel Laureates?
    - zwaps 7y ago
      Read again.
ajmurmann 7y ago
Probably not. However, does it matter? If we take some of the best and brightest from China and make them even better, why would it matter if they'd otherwise be still some of China's best and brightest but less well trained? Regardless the US wins and China loses very talented people.
- toomanyrichies 7y ago
  > does it matter? It matters if they return to China with their American education and: -engage in nation-state attacks on behalf of the PLA [1], or -build facial-recognition software to further repress the Uyghur community [2], or -contribute to the "social credit" system which makes it next-to-impossible for everyday Chinese to express anything other than unvarnished support of the ruling party [3], or -eavesdrop on advocates for democracy in Hong Kong [4], or -build advanced weapons systems that are then installed on newly-constructed islands in the South China Sea [5], or -conduct industrial espionage on behalf of Chinese companies with key government contacts or PLA-connected C-level execs [6], or -participate in advanced research projects like quantum satellites which could give China a persistent strategic advantage against the NSA [7], or -install facial recognition technology in primary-school and middle-school classrooms to enhance indoctrination methods at an earlier age [8], or -any other number of future scenarios we haven't even discussed. I'm not saying every overseas Chinese student fits this description. While living in Shanghai for almost 6 years, I encountered quite a few that were open to democratic ideals and skeptical of their government's propaganda. However, there is also a non-trivial amount of nationalism among everyday Chinese, and the CCP is capable of directing it against the US anytime it sees fit, through its monopoly of mainland media outlets (and increasingly, non-mainland ones as well) [9]. I don't pretend to have a solution to this problem. But I think it may be short-sighted to expect Chinese students to be wooed by the wonders of democracy after a short-term study-abroad program in a country whose democracy is flawed at best. ------------ Sources: [1] https://www.cbronline.com/what-is/what-is-pla-unit-61398-and-who-are-the-five-chinese-hackers-4271980/ https://www.cbronline.com/what-is/what-is-pla-unit-61398-and... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/apr/11/china-hi-tech-war-on-muslim-minority-xinjiang-uighurs-surveillance-face-recognition https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/apr/11/china-hi-tech-w... [3] https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4/ https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-p... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_China#Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_China#Hon... [5] https://futurism.com/the-byte/australia-chinese-lasers-military-pilots https://futurism.com/the-byte/australia-chinese-lasers-milit... [6] https://www.globaldots.com/chinese-spying-chips-found-hidden-on-servers-used-by-us-companies/ https://www.globaldots.com/chinese-spying-chips-found-hidden... [7] https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/06/china-s-quantum-satellite-achieves-spooky-action-record-distance https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/06/china-s-quantum-sate... [8] https://www.businessinsider.com/china-school-facial-recognition-technology-2018-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-school-facial-recognit... [9] https://freedomhouse.org/report/special-reports/speak-no-evil-mass-media-control-contemporary-china https://freedomhouse.org/report/special-reports/speak-no-evi...
- danielscrubs 7y ago
  Probably not? Sounds like someone hasn’t mingled with other countries elites. Yikes. If I’m allowed to sterotype, I’d get the russian math major and the American business major for sales, a Swedish HR and some Polish coders.
ta1234567890 7y ago
As someone who went to the number one school in a 3rd world country and one the top universities in the US, I'd say those people would be of the same or better technical or academic caliber. Although they will most definitely not have the same connections or opportunities afterwards (which is where the most value at elite schools is).
j7ake 7y ago
It's harder to get into the top university in China than at MIT and Harvard. To think otherwise suggests a myopic view of the world. Corollary: it's more prestigious to have done your bachelor's education at Tsinghua University than at MIT or Harvard. The top students in China do their Bachelor's degree in China. The ones who don't get into the top universities and have money are sent overseas.

ulfw 7y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsinghua_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsinghua_University Tsinghua in Beijing is one of the world's foremost universities. A ton of Chinese leaders and also two Nobel laureates come from there.

zwaps 7y ago
Not that it isn't a good university, I mean I hear decent things, but two Nobel laureates is really not that much for a top university. Many local European universities have more.
- Jommi 7y ago
  How is it not a good university? Is it solely measured on Nobel Laureates?
  - zwaps 7y ago
    Read again.

ajmurmann 7y ago

Probably not. However, does it matter? If we take some of the best and brightest from China and make them even better, why would it matter if they'd otherwise be still some of China's best and brightest but less well trained? Regardless the US wins and China loses very talented people.

toomanyrichies 7y ago
> does it matter? It matters if they return to China with their American education and: -engage in nation-state attacks on behalf of the PLA [1], or -build facial-recognition software to further repress the Uyghur community [2], or -contribute to the "social credit" system which makes it next-to-impossible for everyday Chinese to express anything other than unvarnished support of the ruling party [3], or -eavesdrop on advocates for democracy in Hong Kong [4], or -build advanced weapons systems that are then installed on newly-constructed islands in the South China Sea [5], or -conduct industrial espionage on behalf of Chinese companies with key government contacts or PLA-connected C-level execs [6], or -participate in advanced research projects like quantum satellites which could give China a persistent strategic advantage against the NSA [7], or -install facial recognition technology in primary-school and middle-school classrooms to enhance indoctrination methods at an earlier age [8], or -any other number of future scenarios we haven't even discussed. I'm not saying every overseas Chinese student fits this description. While living in Shanghai for almost 6 years, I encountered quite a few that were open to democratic ideals and skeptical of their government's propaganda. However, there is also a non-trivial amount of nationalism among everyday Chinese, and the CCP is capable of directing it against the US anytime it sees fit, through its monopoly of mainland media outlets (and increasingly, non-mainland ones as well) [9]. I don't pretend to have a solution to this problem. But I think it may be short-sighted to expect Chinese students to be wooed by the wonders of democracy after a short-term study-abroad program in a country whose democracy is flawed at best. ------------ Sources: [1] https://www.cbronline.com/what-is/what-is-pla-unit-61398-and-who-are-the-five-chinese-hackers-4271980/ https://www.cbronline.com/what-is/what-is-pla-unit-61398-and... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/apr/11/china-hi-tech-war-on-muslim-minority-xinjiang-uighurs-surveillance-face-recognition https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/apr/11/china-hi-tech-w... [3] https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4/ https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-p... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_China#Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_China#Hon... [5] https://futurism.com/the-byte/australia-chinese-lasers-military-pilots https://futurism.com/the-byte/australia-chinese-lasers-milit... [6] https://www.globaldots.com/chinese-spying-chips-found-hidden-on-servers-used-by-us-companies/ https://www.globaldots.com/chinese-spying-chips-found-hidden... [7] https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/06/china-s-quantum-satellite-achieves-spooky-action-record-distance https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/06/china-s-quantum-sate... [8] https://www.businessinsider.com/china-school-facial-recognition-technology-2018-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-school-facial-recognit... [9] https://freedomhouse.org/report/special-reports/speak-no-evil-mass-media-control-contemporary-china https://freedomhouse.org/report/special-reports/speak-no-evi...
danielscrubs 7y ago
Probably not? Sounds like someone hasn’t mingled with other countries elites. Yikes. If I’m allowed to sterotype, I’d get the russian math major and the American business major for sales, a Swedish HR and some Polish coders.

ta1234567890 7y ago

As someone who went to the number one school in a 3rd world country and one the top universities in the US, I'd say those people would be of the same or better technical or academic caliber. Although they will most definitely not have the same connections or opportunities afterwards (which is where the most value at elite schools is).

j7ake 7y ago

It's harder to get into the top university in China than at MIT and Harvard. To think otherwise suggests a myopic view of the world. Corollary: it's more prestigious to have done your bachelor's education at Tsinghua University than at MIT or Harvard. The top students in China do their Bachelor's degree in China. The ones who don't get into the top universities and have money are sent overseas.