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For the most part, a functioning government is non-existent in India. The primary activity of both the federal/central and state governments in India is theft (

For the most part, a functioning government is non-existent in India. The primary activity of both the federal/central and state governments in India is theft (through bribes as well as taxes), and being a drag on the economy. It's not unlike a Mafia-run protection racket. If you don't pay bribes or taxes, you either get in trouble, or don't get basic services. A good chunk of the tax revenue is robbed by at various points due to corruption, and rarely does the majority of it actually get used for public services. The fact that the streets of most major Indian cities lay strewn with garbage, is just one testament to the brokenness of public services in India. Beyond that, the degree to which the governments in India have stifled economic growth and the potential of the country is truly horrifying. Up until around 1990, the governments agenda was perpetual poverty as they made it impossible for people to start businesses, by imposing significant red tape, and requiring regulatory approval for every little thing (look up "License Raj").

kamaal 7y ago
>>Up until around 1990, the governments agenda was perpetual poverty as they made it impossible for people to start businesses, by imposing significant red tape, and requiring regulatory approval for almost every little thing. (look up "License Raj"). The more things change, the more they remain same. You can't exactly fix these things with laws. You need to have cultural change at some point in time. I remember a colleague telling a story about a product company shuttering its offshore center in India. A lot of Indian colleagues stood up and spoke passionately about the benefits and advantages of doing business in India, including access to talent. Apparently the boss in US, he was a CTO just stoop up asked us a simple question: What do you guys make in India? It was a fairly simple question, it was a kind of brutal self appraisal, but apart from making soaps and clothing and ball point pens, you really struggle to answer the question. What IP do we build here? and what do we make that we sell, like products? Compare this with any top world economy today like US, China, Germany, UK etc. You begin to realize how far behind we are. India is all about reselling things we don't make. In this kind of an economy, higher your population, more hands the goods change through. Each person gets a cut, you could linear interpolate this, have a 3 billion population and even exceed US economy. But it will change nothing in people's living standards, or quality, it won't give them quality education or health care, or anything for that matter. Basically numbers look beautiful, while nothing changes on the ground. Lastly Indian love for bureaucracy and red tape is undying and eternal. This comes from aristocracy and government. People think being management jobs means doing 0 work and having access to slaves who serve them while making big money. Ivy League grads aspire to do MBA's from top colleges. Programmers want to be managers ASAP. Pretty much all my cousins have a distance education MBA. No appetite for engineering. In short you can't change this with laws. People have to change.
- jogjayr 7y ago
  > India is all about reselling things we don't make Boy, you are a downer! Things are not the best, but they're not all bad either. Here are some important things India makes: 1. Movies - it has the largest (by number of productions) film industry in the world, and third largest by revenue (admittedly the latter is expected and it's third by a fair distance) 2. Satellite launch services - Antrix corporation, run by the Indian government no less.[1] And it makes a profit, what a crazy world we live in! 3. Generic medicines - Largest manufacturer of these in the world[2]. 4. Motorcycles - The 2 largest motorcycle manufacturers in the world are Indian companies. [3][4] Are their bikes household names in developed countries today? No, but neither were Honda or Toyota in 1960. 5. Steel and cement - Apparently the 2nd largest steel and cement producer in the world (I didn't know this)[5][6] but also admittedly a long way off first place. I didn't have the time or patience to research more, but you get the idea. > What IP do we build here? Most countries don't produce that much valuable IP in this stage of their growth. That comes later, when the basics - manufacturing, laws, financial systems, transport - have been firmed up. Having said that I'm sure there's a non-zero amount of useful research from the IITs or IIS or ISRO or BARC. > Compare this with any top world economy today like US, China, Germany, UK etc. You begin to realize how far behind we are. That's why (apart from China) they're referred to as "developed" countries and India is not. > Programmers want to be managers ASAP. You may find that outside the technology industry, it's like that everywhere. Anecdote: a few years ago, I caught up with an old acquaintance (who was raised in the US) working at an American consulting company in the Midwest. When he found out I'm a software engineer in the Bay Area he said "Oh, you're just a programmer." and sounded disappointed. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antrix_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antrix_Corporation 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry_in_Ind... 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bajaj_Auto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bajaj_Auto 4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_MotoCorp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_MotoCorp 5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_pro... 6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cement_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cement_pr...
  - kamaal 7y ago
anoncake 7y ago
> The primary activity of both the federal/central and state governments in India is theft (through [...] taxes), This is just nonsense. Taxation has nothing to do with theft. > If you don't pay [...] taxes, you either get in trouble, or don't get basic services. As you should. Not getting in trouble for tax evasion would be a sign of a dysfunctional government. > A good chunk of the tax revenue is robbed by at various points due to corruption, and rarely does the majority of it actually get used for public services. > So is this, of course. Up until around 1990, the governments agenda was perpetual poverty People who are pointlessly evil, not just egoistic and corrupt, are rare. I don't think the Indian people managed to elect them into government for decades.

kamaal 7y ago

>>Up until around 1990, the governments agenda was perpetual poverty as they made it impossible for people to start businesses, by imposing significant red tape, and requiring regulatory approval for almost every little thing. (look up "License Raj"). The more things change, the more they remain same. You can't exactly fix these things with laws. You need to have cultural change at some point in time. I remember a colleague telling a story about a product company shuttering its offshore center in India. A lot of Indian colleagues stood up and spoke passionately about the benefits and advantages of doing business in India, including access to talent. Apparently the boss in US, he was a CTO just stoop up asked us a simple question: What do you guys make in India? It was a fairly simple question, it was a kind of brutal self appraisal, but apart from making soaps and clothing and ball point pens, you really struggle to answer the question. What IP do we build here? and what do we make that we sell, like products? Compare this with any top world economy today like US, China, Germany, UK etc. You begin to realize how far behind we are. India is all about reselling things we don't make. In this kind of an economy, higher your population, more hands the goods change through. Each person gets a cut, you could linear interpolate this, have a 3 billion population and even exceed US economy. But it will change nothing in people's living standards, or quality, it won't give them quality education or health care, or anything for that matter. Basically numbers look beautiful, while nothing changes on the ground. Lastly Indian love for bureaucracy and red tape is undying and eternal. This comes from aristocracy and government. People think being management jobs means doing 0 work and having access to slaves who serve them while making big money. Ivy League grads aspire to do MBA's from top colleges. Programmers want to be managers ASAP. Pretty much all my cousins have a distance education MBA. No appetite for engineering. In short you can't change this with laws. People have to change.

jogjayr 7y ago
> India is all about reselling things we don't make Boy, you are a downer! Things are not the best, but they're not all bad either. Here are some important things India makes: 1. Movies - it has the largest (by number of productions) film industry in the world, and third largest by revenue (admittedly the latter is expected and it's third by a fair distance) 2. Satellite launch services - Antrix corporation, run by the Indian government no less.[1] And it makes a profit, what a crazy world we live in! 3. Generic medicines - Largest manufacturer of these in the world[2]. 4. Motorcycles - The 2 largest motorcycle manufacturers in the world are Indian companies. [3][4] Are their bikes household names in developed countries today? No, but neither were Honda or Toyota in 1960. 5. Steel and cement - Apparently the 2nd largest steel and cement producer in the world (I didn't know this)[5][6] but also admittedly a long way off first place. I didn't have the time or patience to research more, but you get the idea. > What IP do we build here? Most countries don't produce that much valuable IP in this stage of their growth. That comes later, when the basics - manufacturing, laws, financial systems, transport - have been firmed up. Having said that I'm sure there's a non-zero amount of useful research from the IITs or IIS or ISRO or BARC. > Compare this with any top world economy today like US, China, Germany, UK etc. You begin to realize how far behind we are. That's why (apart from China) they're referred to as "developed" countries and India is not. > Programmers want to be managers ASAP. You may find that outside the technology industry, it's like that everywhere. Anecdote: a few years ago, I caught up with an old acquaintance (who was raised in the US) working at an American consulting company in the Midwest. When he found out I'm a software engineer in the Bay Area he said "Oh, you're just a programmer." and sounded disappointed. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antrix_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antrix_Corporation 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry_in_Ind... 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bajaj_Auto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bajaj_Auto 4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_MotoCorp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_MotoCorp 5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_pro... 6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cement_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cement_pr...
- kamaal 7y ago

anoncake 7y ago

> The primary activity of both the federal/central and state governments in India is theft (through [...] taxes), This is just nonsense. Taxation has nothing to do with theft. > If you don't pay [...] taxes, you either get in trouble, or don't get basic services. As you should. Not getting in trouble for tax evasion would be a sign of a dysfunctional government. > A good chunk of the tax revenue is robbed by at various points due to corruption, and rarely does the majority of it actually get used for public services. > So is this, of course. Up until around 1990, the governments agenda was perpetual poverty People who are pointlessly evil, not just egoistic and corrupt, are rare. I don't think the Indian people managed to elect them into government for decades.