6 ms·

Those seem like pretty big downsides to me, and I don't believe the new terminal marketing gimmick. I will admit Windows has been very attractive lately for gam

by jxi 7y ago

Those seem like pretty big downsides to me, and I don't believe the new terminal marketing gimmick. I will admit Windows has been very attractive lately for gaming reasons, but from a development standpoint, MacOS still seems way ahead of Windows. I seriously considered it, but there would be too much I'd miss if I switched. There's some minor reasons too, like why does IntelliJ look ugly in Windows? It looks great in both Mac and Linux.

72deluxe 7y ago
"from a development standpoint, MacOS still seems way ahead of Windows" Sorry but have you heard of Visual Studio?
- oneplane 7y ago
  Everyone has heard of Visual Studio, and nobody that has to use it wants to. Just because you have Stockholm syndrome doesn't mean everyone else has to have it too ;-)
  - 72deluxe 7y ago
    Must be a different development sphere to me. I have to use xcode for dev on the Mac and it is feeble compared to VS. I can't think of a better IDE to be honest (C++, C# for me). Whenever I have to use other offerings like Eclipse, Netbeans or Android Studio for other languages I am never very satisfied with them. Android Studio in particular breaks gradle and projects between updates, although Flutter seems to work.
  - jannes 7y ago
    VS is pretty nice if you run it without plugins that slow it down (like ReSharper)
  - GlennS 7y ago
    I'm really suprised at this comment. I'm confident most of the .NET community is very happy with Visual Studio. In my opinion, Visual Studio massively outclasses Eclipse, VSCode and Netbeans. It even makes IntelliJ (which is pretty great too) look a bit inadequate. (I use Emacs these days though.)
    - ernst_klim 7y ago
      >from a development standpoint >I'm confident most of the .NET community is very happy with Visual Studio .NET is not the only ecosystem people develop for. There are embedded C/Forth, web frontend/backend, written in Java, Scala, Ruby, Python, other stuff. VS sucks for nearly everything safe C#/C++ for windows. Besides, even for C# people use an additional plugin, resharper, so VS is not enough even for its target ecosystem.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        > Besides, even for C# people use an additional plugin, resharper, so VS is not enough even for its target ecosystem. Those that have CPU cycles and memory to spare do.
        patates 7y ago
        ReSharper is a meme in the .NET world, similar to how Crysis in the gaming world is: https://i.imgur.com/LQkRlSN.png https://i.imgur.com/LQkRlSN.png I have a laptop with 64GB of memory just because I need to run VS + ReSharper in a VM. Seriously.
    - oneplane 7y ago
      It's why I put in: unless you have to use it, which means: if you target Windows. If you target anything else, you're probably not using it unless you already happen to have it. I agree that most IDEs are crap, it's pretty strange when you think about it, software developers developing software to develop software, but developing it badly so it now sucks for everyone.
  - GuB-42 7y ago
    It has been a long time since I used Visual Studio but I remember it as the best IDE I have ever used for C++. I am now working on Linux with Sublime Text, Makefiles and the command line. I am most comfortable with that setup but there are many features that I miss from VS: the debugger, online help, code navigation, ... Not that these features don't exist in other editors and IDEs, but with VS, they worked reliably and out of the box. Note: VSCode is completely different. It is a multi-platform text editor, one of the best in town. A bit lacking in the performance department though, that's why I am still using Sublime Text.
- ernst_klim 7y ago
  >Sorry but have you heard of Visual Studio? A sluggish clumsy bloated IDE? What's good about it? I've used it for a couple of years when I wrote directshow filters, and it was a complete shit back in a days (2015-2017). * terrible clumsy project system, where changing a flag is a quest. As abominable as autotools. * using non-vcproj projects is a pain, especially when you have a bunch of make files * It's slow as hell. * Language support is lacking. No OCaml, no Lisp, hell, even C11 is a quest. After they've added a package manager and clang support, it became less painful, but fur from great experience.
holoduke 7y ago
Well did you try out Linux bash on windows. In less than 2 minutes you setup a Debian instance. You got shells and everything. All well known ide's are available on both Windows and Mac. In my opinion there is no real difference anymore. I am a Mac user and windows user. The only reason why I still use my Mac is because of the ergonomics.
- rusk 7y ago
  In my experience Mac OS still has the edge in terms of stability. But certainly the gap is closing.
  - barrkel 7y ago
    The only crashes I've had from NT kernel over the past 15 years or so are from graphics card drivers and bad RAM. Linux is a lot less stable, as a laptop OS, than Windows or OSX. Suspend and resume in presence and absence of multiple monitors is like rolling dice; locks up about 15% of the time.
    - rusk 7y ago
      Lucky you! I do a reboot on my Windows 10 machine every night. I also suffered from intermittent complete and total lockups due to a bug in what I traced to spotify. Similar thing happened with MacOS and safari recently enough too so I stopped using Safari for a while ...
      - AtlasLion 7y ago
        using a Lenovo P50 with windows 10 for 2 years now, I only reboot it maybe once a month, for the rest, I close the lid, it goes to sleep, next day in the office, I open the lid and continue where I stopped. so far I have had zero issues with it.
        rusk 7y ago
        That's how I use my mac. Sad to say I've never had that experience with Windows but then again, I've never had a Lenovo ...
rudiv 7y ago
Re: IntelliJ looking bad on Windows, I do know that JetBrains IDEs are still stuck on using GDI for drawing fonts rather than the new DirectWrite protocol. The poor quality of GDI (especially on high DPI displays) is very noticeable when you switch from Linux or macOS to a Windows app that uses it. I looked it up a while ago, and as I recall it was an issue with the Java runtime that JetBrains IDEs use.

by jxi 7y ago

72deluxe 7y ago

"from a development standpoint, MacOS still seems way ahead of Windows" Sorry but have you heard of Visual Studio?

oneplane 7y ago
Everyone has heard of Visual Studio, and nobody that has to use it wants to. Just because you have Stockholm syndrome doesn't mean everyone else has to have it too ;-)
- 72deluxe 7y ago
  Must be a different development sphere to me. I have to use xcode for dev on the Mac and it is feeble compared to VS. I can't think of a better IDE to be honest (C++, C# for me). Whenever I have to use other offerings like Eclipse, Netbeans or Android Studio for other languages I am never very satisfied with them. Android Studio in particular breaks gradle and projects between updates, although Flutter seems to work.
- jannes 7y ago
  VS is pretty nice if you run it without plugins that slow it down (like ReSharper)
- GlennS 7y ago
  I'm really suprised at this comment. I'm confident most of the .NET community is very happy with Visual Studio. In my opinion, Visual Studio massively outclasses Eclipse, VSCode and Netbeans. It even makes IntelliJ (which is pretty great too) look a bit inadequate. (I use Emacs these days though.)
  - ernst_klim 7y ago
    >from a development standpoint >I'm confident most of the .NET community is very happy with Visual Studio .NET is not the only ecosystem people develop for. There are embedded C/Forth, web frontend/backend, written in Java, Scala, Ruby, Python, other stuff. VS sucks for nearly everything safe C#/C++ for windows. Besides, even for C# people use an additional plugin, resharper, so VS is not enough even for its target ecosystem.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      > Besides, even for C# people use an additional plugin, resharper, so VS is not enough even for its target ecosystem. Those that have CPU cycles and memory to spare do.
      - patates 7y ago
        ReSharper is a meme in the .NET world, similar to how Crysis in the gaming world is: https://i.imgur.com/LQkRlSN.png https://i.imgur.com/LQkRlSN.png I have a laptop with 64GB of memory just because I need to run VS + ReSharper in a VM. Seriously.
  - oneplane 7y ago
    It's why I put in: unless you have to use it, which means: if you target Windows. If you target anything else, you're probably not using it unless you already happen to have it. I agree that most IDEs are crap, it's pretty strange when you think about it, software developers developing software to develop software, but developing it badly so it now sucks for everyone.
- GuB-42 7y ago
  It has been a long time since I used Visual Studio but I remember it as the best IDE I have ever used for C++. I am now working on Linux with Sublime Text, Makefiles and the command line. I am most comfortable with that setup but there are many features that I miss from VS: the debugger, online help, code navigation, ... Not that these features don't exist in other editors and IDEs, but with VS, they worked reliably and out of the box. Note: VSCode is completely different. It is a multi-platform text editor, one of the best in town. A bit lacking in the performance department though, that's why I am still using Sublime Text.
ernst_klim 7y ago
>Sorry but have you heard of Visual Studio? A sluggish clumsy bloated IDE? What's good about it? I've used it for a couple of years when I wrote directshow filters, and it was a complete shit back in a days (2015-2017). * terrible clumsy project system, where changing a flag is a quest. As abominable as autotools. * using non-vcproj projects is a pain, especially when you have a bunch of make files * It's slow as hell. * Language support is lacking. No OCaml, no Lisp, hell, even C11 is a quest. After they've added a package manager and clang support, it became less painful, but fur from great experience.

holoduke 7y ago

Well did you try out Linux bash on windows. In less than 2 minutes you setup a Debian instance. You got shells and everything. All well known ide's are available on both Windows and Mac. In my opinion there is no real difference anymore. I am a Mac user and windows user. The only reason why I still use my Mac is because of the ergonomics.

rusk 7y ago
In my experience Mac OS still has the edge in terms of stability. But certainly the gap is closing.
- barrkel 7y ago
  The only crashes I've had from NT kernel over the past 15 years or so are from graphics card drivers and bad RAM. Linux is a lot less stable, as a laptop OS, than Windows or OSX. Suspend and resume in presence and absence of multiple monitors is like rolling dice; locks up about 15% of the time.
  - rusk 7y ago
    Lucky you! I do a reboot on my Windows 10 machine every night. I also suffered from intermittent complete and total lockups due to a bug in what I traced to spotify. Similar thing happened with MacOS and safari recently enough too so I stopped using Safari for a while ...
    - AtlasLion 7y ago
      using a Lenovo P50 with windows 10 for 2 years now, I only reboot it maybe once a month, for the rest, I close the lid, it goes to sleep, next day in the office, I open the lid and continue where I stopped. so far I have had zero issues with it.
      - rusk 7y ago
        That's how I use my mac. Sad to say I've never had that experience with Windows but then again, I've never had a Lenovo ...

rudiv 7y ago

Re: IntelliJ looking bad on Windows, I do know that JetBrains IDEs are still stuck on using GDI for drawing fonts rather than the new DirectWrite protocol. The poor quality of GDI (especially on high DPI displays) is very noticeable when you switch from Linux or macOS to a Windows app that uses it. I looked it up a while ago, and as I recall it was an issue with the Java runtime that JetBrains IDEs use.