4 ms·

Doesn't really work like that though. In the Utah example, it was "experience years of homelessness and other problems" then you get your house. Hardly a great

by Bakary 7y ago

Doesn't really work like that though. In the Utah example, it was "experience years of homelessness and other problems" then you get your house. Hardly a great choice of lifestyle.

badpun 7y ago
There's a youtube channel where a guy interviews homeless people. A lot of them just chose to live on the streets over the the pressures of making rent money in a job. They chose to check out of society. If there's a program that says "live on the street for 3 years and you get a free flat", I'm betting it would be an ok deal for some.
- 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
  Not everyone experiences pressures the same. Especially after trauma. I know for me the stress of earning rent is WAY, WAY orders of magnitude less than living on the street. For many people it is that way, that is why they choose not to. Most people on the street don't want to be there (though you wouldn't know it, they are working poor who mostly sleep in their cars, what you see as homeless is only a small percentage of homeless) You could experience trauma too. It can change anyone. A little empathy goes a long way.
  - badpun 7y ago
    > they are working poor who mostly sleep in their cars How can you work full-time and not afford even the shantiest room somewhere?
    - 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
      They don't have full time. Many of the worst jobs in our society are given on part time/hours basis only. And most landlords now a days do background checks. If you have been in prison, had a foreclosure, bankruptcy, etc many places won't rent to you at all. So you have to go to predatory places which charge way more than your regular housing. However, this is all very basic information on this topic. Since you seem to not know these very basic facts, may I suggest not holding an opinion or judgement until you may do a little reading on the topic. It's my experience in my life that when I gave an opinion on something I was ignorant on, I generally felt ashamed afterwards. It's been a big motivator in me trying to know a little before giving an opinion. I think it's made me a better person.
- chopin 7y ago
  So you are essentially not solving a problem for fear of a minuscule amount of suckers? Two decades ago, there was a big press campaign in Germany over "lazy professors" with some prominent illustrative examples (which I am sure existed). As a consequence academia was covered with bureaucracy to prevent this. Now professors do paperwork instead of science or teaching. For the greater good society should be able to cope with a few free-riders.
  - badpun 7y ago
    I lived in communist Poland, who tried, via lots of socialist policies, to fix the "social injustices". Over time, it created an absolutely insane amount of free-riding behaviours, to the point that if you did not took advantage of the state, you were the sucker. People living in Western countries have not experienced socialism on that scale yet, so they haven't seen how corroding to the human character the state-given freebies can be. Regarding lazy professors, we were (and still are) the exact same problem in Poland - dunno what the situation is in Germany, but here I'm convinced the laziness is absolutely prevalent, and almost no one is doing any real research. We also had the heavy buruecratic reform imposed on the academics, and the main difference is that now they expend a lot of effort pretending they're doing research, up to the point of creating collusion rings where everybody is citing everybody else (so that their citation count looks decent) etc. On a broader scale, I don't believe that people do well in utopias imposed by bureucrats - and that's what the "help the homeless" and other socialist programs ultimately are. A lot of us just can't relate to something as impersonal as the state, and see no problem cheating it or stealing from it. What's worse, it's a slippery slope that leads to general moral corrosion. The professors are one of myriad examples of this - under socialism, most of them learned to game the system in a way that allows them to do nothing, to the point that it became a part of the Polish academic culture, which is now absolutely immoral and corrupt (just speak to young Polish scientist how actually want to do science, and who haven't yet given up and left the country). These people then pass such values to their children, who may enter different areas of live, and spill the cynicism of their parents there. Over a couple of generations, you end up with an absolutely broken and apathetic society - just look at Russia.
    - 7y ago

by Bakary 7y ago

Doesn't really work like that though. In the Utah example, it was "experience years of homelessness and other problems" then you get your house. Hardly a great choice of lifestyle.

badpun 7y ago

There's a youtube channel where a guy interviews homeless people. A lot of them just chose to live on the streets over the the pressures of making rent money in a job. They chose to check out of society. If there's a program that says "live on the street for 3 years and you get a free flat", I'm betting it would be an ok deal for some.

4ntonius8lock 7y ago
Not everyone experiences pressures the same. Especially after trauma. I know for me the stress of earning rent is WAY, WAY orders of magnitude less than living on the street. For many people it is that way, that is why they choose not to. Most people on the street don't want to be there (though you wouldn't know it, they are working poor who mostly sleep in their cars, what you see as homeless is only a small percentage of homeless) You could experience trauma too. It can change anyone. A little empathy goes a long way.
- badpun 7y ago
  > they are working poor who mostly sleep in their cars How can you work full-time and not afford even the shantiest room somewhere?
  - 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
    They don't have full time. Many of the worst jobs in our society are given on part time/hours basis only. And most landlords now a days do background checks. If you have been in prison, had a foreclosure, bankruptcy, etc many places won't rent to you at all. So you have to go to predatory places which charge way more than your regular housing. However, this is all very basic information on this topic. Since you seem to not know these very basic facts, may I suggest not holding an opinion or judgement until you may do a little reading on the topic. It's my experience in my life that when I gave an opinion on something I was ignorant on, I generally felt ashamed afterwards. It's been a big motivator in me trying to know a little before giving an opinion. I think it's made me a better person.
chopin 7y ago
So you are essentially not solving a problem for fear of a minuscule amount of suckers? Two decades ago, there was a big press campaign in Germany over "lazy professors" with some prominent illustrative examples (which I am sure existed). As a consequence academia was covered with bureaucracy to prevent this. Now professors do paperwork instead of science or teaching. For the greater good society should be able to cope with a few free-riders.
- badpun 7y ago
  I lived in communist Poland, who tried, via lots of socialist policies, to fix the "social injustices". Over time, it created an absolutely insane amount of free-riding behaviours, to the point that if you did not took advantage of the state, you were the sucker. People living in Western countries have not experienced socialism on that scale yet, so they haven't seen how corroding to the human character the state-given freebies can be. Regarding lazy professors, we were (and still are) the exact same problem in Poland - dunno what the situation is in Germany, but here I'm convinced the laziness is absolutely prevalent, and almost no one is doing any real research. We also had the heavy buruecratic reform imposed on the academics, and the main difference is that now they expend a lot of effort pretending they're doing research, up to the point of creating collusion rings where everybody is citing everybody else (so that their citation count looks decent) etc. On a broader scale, I don't believe that people do well in utopias imposed by bureucrats - and that's what the "help the homeless" and other socialist programs ultimately are. A lot of us just can't relate to something as impersonal as the state, and see no problem cheating it or stealing from it. What's worse, it's a slippery slope that leads to general moral corrosion. The professors are one of myriad examples of this - under socialism, most of them learned to game the system in a way that allows them to do nothing, to the point that it became a part of the Polish academic culture, which is now absolutely immoral and corrupt (just speak to young Polish scientist how actually want to do science, and who haven't yet given up and left the country). These people then pass such values to their children, who may enter different areas of live, and spill the cynicism of their parents there. Over a couple of generations, you end up with an absolutely broken and apathetic society - just look at Russia.
  - 7y ago