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Unfortunately, iOS 13 drops support for iPhone 5s and iPhone 6.[1] Last year, iOS 12 didn't drop support for any devices. The iPhone 6 is a very popular device,

Unfortunately, iOS 13 drops support for iPhone 5s and iPhone 6.[1] Last year, iOS 12 didn't drop support for any devices. The iPhone 6 is a very popular device, and was still sold by Apple less than two years ago. [1]: https://iosref.com/ios/ https://iosref.com/ios/

dep_b 7y ago
One thing that Google does right with Android is back porting to older versions.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Of course, that’s because most manufacturers don’t push updates to their devices and many users are using versions from years ago.
  - dep_b 7y ago
    True. But supporting iOS 12 would mean I could start working on SwiftUI apps today.
- eugeniub 7y ago
  I'm having a hard time figuring out how this statement can be even remotely accurate.
  - charrondev 7y ago
    Whenever new frameworks or pieces of android come out, they are often accompanied by a compatibility library that you can ship in your app to use the new API and target older platform versions.
    - eugeniub 7y ago
      Ok, that's a fair point.
  - myko 7y ago
    Do you develop Android apps? Google also announced a declarative UI framework. It's in the early stages and is open source. Android is on 9.x but that framework will run on much older versions of Android. Meanwhile iOS 12 might be on 85% of iOS devices but it wont ever see SwiftUI.
    - yoz-y 7y ago
      Vast majority of the people with iOS12 will update. Also, at least on the announcement page, there seems to be no mention of iOS13 required for running apps using SwiftUI. Up until Swift 5 the whole runtime library needed to be shipped with the app and it is quite possible that a SwiftUI library could be shipped and run on iOS12. Edit: On Apple developer forums I've read that the library is annotated with iOS13 requirement.
      - myko 7y ago
        The vast majority of folks will update right away. Not enough to convince my stakeholders that we don't need to support at least one major version back. I'll probably fight that harder this year than in previous years - SwiftUI looks incredible and any AutoLayout code already feels like legacy.
        yoz-y 7y ago
        Yeah, I agree that Apple should have added at least one version worth of backwards compatibility if they want to see quick adoption. I suppose one could hide the whole view in defines and lug two implementations but that is not much better than waiting for one year.
    - antfarm 7y ago
      It will not be on 85% of iOS devices once iOS 13 is available.
      - myko 7y ago
        Sure, but my company (and I assume most) will maintain support for at least the last two major versions of iOS. We wont be able to be minimum iOS 13 until ~September 2020 at the earliest, probably not until early 2021. I understand why, I just wish they could release this open source like Jetpack Compose. Would've been a great way to introduce SPM to Xcode and iOS as well.
  - dep_b 7y ago
    > I'm having a hard time figuring out how this statement can be even remotely accurate. I'm not even an Android developer and I already know that tons of Android libraries get back ported to older Android versions. They have to. Nobody runs the latest Android. It's a bit shocking to get downvoted for a statement that's undeniably true.
jdhn 7y ago
>Unfortunately, iOS 13 drops support for iPhone 5s and iPhone 6. That really is a bummer, I have an iPhone 6 and it's still alive and kicking.
- fontenaut 7y ago
  day before WWDC: was rocking the 6 day after WWDC SwiftUI announcement: look ma, shiny new xr lol
npunt 7y ago
According to Mixpanel, the 5S / 6 / 6 Plus together account for a bit less than 10% of iOS devices they see. So it's not as big of a drop as one might expect. https://mixpanel.com/trends/#report/iphone_models https://mixpanel.com/trends/#report/iphone_models
- consp 7y ago
  That is way more than most companies will part with. If support drops substantially below 1% we can talk again.
  - simonh 7y ago
    Yep, if your margins are 20% and you lose 10% of your user base and revenue, you just lost half your profit.
    - ambivalence 7y ago
      I must be missing something here. Assuming on a napkin that all users roughly generate the same amount of revenue, losing 10% of them will lose you 10% of your profit, no? If anything, users of really old iPhones are likely to be less spendy so you're losing less than 10%.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        It depends on how you're calculating it: if you have fixed costs, then yes, your profit drops 50%; if your costs scale with number of users then you go down 10%.
      - eugeniub 7y ago
        Profit is revenue minus expenses. Supporting more versions of iOS essentually means greater expenses. So the decision to drop support of older iOS versions is basically the questions of whether or not the additional expense of supporting it is greater than the additional revenue those users generate. For a company like Facebook, the revenue is much greater than expense, while for a smaller company, it's probably smaller.
jamil7 7y ago
Does this include 6 Plus? I grabbed one second hand recently and it's been working great for an iOS side project, would be sad if I couldn't use any of this.
- eugeniub 7y ago
  It includes 6 Plus. 6 and 6 Plus are essentially identical devices internally, they have the same A8 chip and 1 GB of RAM.
BrandonSmith 7y ago
I smell a low-cost iPhone offering late Summer.
- eugeniub 7y ago
  Frankly I think they'll just keep selling iPhone 8 for another year but drop the price down by $50 or so to $549. Or maybe if we're lucky $499. Either way they won't release a serious budget phone like the iPhone SE for $399 like they did in 2016. That year, Apple's flagship phone was $649. This year the flagship is $999.
- tewha 7y ago
  Lower than the $0 they're already offering the Xr at? :)

dep_b 7y ago

One thing that Google does right with Android is back porting to older versions.

saagarjha 7y ago
Of course, that’s because most manufacturers don’t push updates to their devices and many users are using versions from years ago.
- dep_b 7y ago
  True. But supporting iOS 12 would mean I could start working on SwiftUI apps today.
eugeniub 7y ago
I'm having a hard time figuring out how this statement can be even remotely accurate.
- charrondev 7y ago
  Whenever new frameworks or pieces of android come out, they are often accompanied by a compatibility library that you can ship in your app to use the new API and target older platform versions.
  - eugeniub 7y ago
    Ok, that's a fair point.
- myko 7y ago
  Do you develop Android apps? Google also announced a declarative UI framework. It's in the early stages and is open source. Android is on 9.x but that framework will run on much older versions of Android. Meanwhile iOS 12 might be on 85% of iOS devices but it wont ever see SwiftUI.
  - yoz-y 7y ago
    Vast majority of the people with iOS12 will update. Also, at least on the announcement page, there seems to be no mention of iOS13 required for running apps using SwiftUI. Up until Swift 5 the whole runtime library needed to be shipped with the app and it is quite possible that a SwiftUI library could be shipped and run on iOS12. Edit: On Apple developer forums I've read that the library is annotated with iOS13 requirement.
    - myko 7y ago
      The vast majority of folks will update right away. Not enough to convince my stakeholders that we don't need to support at least one major version back. I'll probably fight that harder this year than in previous years - SwiftUI looks incredible and any AutoLayout code already feels like legacy.
      - yoz-y 7y ago
        Yeah, I agree that Apple should have added at least one version worth of backwards compatibility if they want to see quick adoption. I suppose one could hide the whole view in defines and lug two implementations but that is not much better than waiting for one year.
  - antfarm 7y ago
    It will not be on 85% of iOS devices once iOS 13 is available.
    - myko 7y ago
      Sure, but my company (and I assume most) will maintain support for at least the last two major versions of iOS. We wont be able to be minimum iOS 13 until ~September 2020 at the earliest, probably not until early 2021. I understand why, I just wish they could release this open source like Jetpack Compose. Would've been a great way to introduce SPM to Xcode and iOS as well.
- dep_b 7y ago
  > I'm having a hard time figuring out how this statement can be even remotely accurate. I'm not even an Android developer and I already know that tons of Android libraries get back ported to older Android versions. They have to. Nobody runs the latest Android. It's a bit shocking to get downvoted for a statement that's undeniably true.

jdhn 7y ago

>Unfortunately, iOS 13 drops support for iPhone 5s and iPhone 6. That really is a bummer, I have an iPhone 6 and it's still alive and kicking.

fontenaut 7y ago
day before WWDC: was rocking the 6 day after WWDC SwiftUI announcement: look ma, shiny new xr lol

npunt 7y ago

According to Mixpanel, the 5S / 6 / 6 Plus together account for a bit less than 10% of iOS devices they see. So it's not as big of a drop as one might expect. https://mixpanel.com/trends/#report/iphone_models https://mixpanel.com/trends/#report/iphone_models

consp 7y ago
That is way more than most companies will part with. If support drops substantially below 1% we can talk again.
- simonh 7y ago
  Yep, if your margins are 20% and you lose 10% of your user base and revenue, you just lost half your profit.
  - ambivalence 7y ago
    I must be missing something here. Assuming on a napkin that all users roughly generate the same amount of revenue, losing 10% of them will lose you 10% of your profit, no? If anything, users of really old iPhones are likely to be less spendy so you're losing less than 10%.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      It depends on how you're calculating it: if you have fixed costs, then yes, your profit drops 50%; if your costs scale with number of users then you go down 10%.
    - eugeniub 7y ago
      Profit is revenue minus expenses. Supporting more versions of iOS essentually means greater expenses. So the decision to drop support of older iOS versions is basically the questions of whether or not the additional expense of supporting it is greater than the additional revenue those users generate. For a company like Facebook, the revenue is much greater than expense, while for a smaller company, it's probably smaller.

jamil7 7y ago

Does this include 6 Plus? I grabbed one second hand recently and it's been working great for an iOS side project, would be sad if I couldn't use any of this.

eugeniub 7y ago
It includes 6 Plus. 6 and 6 Plus are essentially identical devices internally, they have the same A8 chip and 1 GB of RAM.

BrandonSmith 7y ago

I smell a low-cost iPhone offering late Summer.

eugeniub 7y ago
Frankly I think they'll just keep selling iPhone 8 for another year but drop the price down by $50 or so to $549. Or maybe if we're lucky $499. Either way they won't release a serious budget phone like the iPhone SE for $399 like they did in 2016. That year, Apple's flagship phone was $649. This year the flagship is $999.
tewha 7y ago
Lower than the $0 they're already offering the Xr at? :)