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As most of us here are with the developer hat. I think it's worth reminding that the target audience of those machines are Pro creatives. (those who didn't ditc

As most of us here are with the developer hat. I think it's worth reminding that the target audience of those machines are Pro creatives. (those who didn't ditch Apple yet ;) ) It's also the second time I remember Apple revert a critical interface removal. (first one was FireWire from the first Unibody MacBook). Apple lost a lot users when they've ditched PCIe. you can buy those Thunderbolt-PCIe cages and have a lot of external media drives outside your machine, but for pro people that meant new Mac Pro isn't well for putting in a machine room or stacking under the table. Back when Apple announced the switch to Intel a lot of studios had to do an expensive upgrade not only replacing their old G5s but also additional DSP/Accelerator cards from PCI-X to PCIe. when Apple showed the trashcan (Mac Pro 2013) it was a hard sale that kept many folks with their Mac Pro 2010-2012. While it's not stylish looking (imho) or ground-breaking modular deisgn as I've assumed, it's the first time in a while Apple is responding to their hard-core users. price? I had macOS running on my AMD Athlon X2 back in the days (Leopard!) and even then Mac Pros were much more expansive if you've compared pure hardware. professional got Mac Pros because they've preferred their peace of mind. and I must admit, with exception of memory & gpus failures, I know many of those machines that are still rockin'. Last thing Apple should do to get pros the freedom is sign Nvidia's drivers...

atonse 7y ago
This likely is a great machine for creative pros. But as a developer, I wanted a desktop class CPU and just a separate monitor (tired of hearing my laptop fans all the time, and it not being expandable), so I can upgrade them independently. So while developers are pros, we won't appreciate things like XDR because we don't need them, unlike movie studios and photographers. So a $5k monitor is overpriced for editing code. But I honestly would've shelled out even $2k for a good monitor. $5k is too much. The computer seems like a better value if you know you'd keep it for 5-10 years.
- nvahalik 7y ago
  I’m right here with you. Just built a Win10 machine because of thermal issues. I don’t even mind having a laptop but is it too much to ask to pay iMac prices for mid grade hardware??
  - rock_artist 7y ago
    The thing is, it doesn't need to be Win10 machine. Even if you're developing for Apple. If you need a "Mac Dev" you can setup up any Intel based machine with macOS. It's not "plug-n-play" but it's not that far from getting Linux running with drivers and performance you'd expect it to.
    - atonse 7y ago
      Yeah but if it's your primary machine, you don't want to live under the spectre of being one bad update away from hosing a day or two of productivity. I already have that happening with node modules, don't need an additional thing :)
- thirdsun 7y ago
  > But as a developer, I wanted a desktop class CPU and just a separate monitor (tired of hearing my laptop fans all the time, and it not being expandable), so I can upgrade them independently. What's wrong with the Mac Mini? Sure, there's no way to upgrade the CPU, but considering the resale value of Apple hardware replacing the whole machine every few years is actually a worthwhile upgrade strategy. Of course the same sell and replace upgrade path applies to the iMac (Pro) - I understand that you would like to keep the display separate, but it's a fantastic display which doesn't really have any alternatives right now. I don't see how you could much better in that category. Of course, if MacOS isn't that important to you, this discussion isn't worth having - in that case you could buy whatever you want.
  - atonse 7y ago
    I wish macOS wasn't as important, but honestly it's the most important. I don't want to switch back to Windows or Linux at this point since I'm too invested in the Apple ecosystem (and it's certainly the most privacy conscious option right now).
    - thirdsun 7y ago
      Same here. And that's exactly why the choice between upgradeability and macOS is still an easy one, at least for me. Sure, I'd love to build an affordable, modular computer, particularly since AMD's renaissance, but not if it means sacrificing macOS.
hbosch 7y ago
> As most of us here are with the developer hat. I think it's worth reminding that the target audience of those machines are Pro creatives. (those who didn't ditch Apple yet ;) ) I seriously wonder about those that haven't left Apple yet, that are willing to shell out $6k for a new Mac Pro. There was a small cohort of studios and creative professionals who invested into the old Mac Pro Trashcan and got severely burned by hardware that was overpriced, obsolete, and non-upgradable. Almost everyone I know who bought one of those ended up re-investing into a W10 PC with 1080s to TITANs or now 2080s. You can't do anything meaningful in 3D with the specs on this PC, so this machine is instantly DOA for the entire top-end of the (read: willing to spend $$$) creative field... that's motion graphics, animation, modeling, game design, VR, vis fx and simulation, etc. because since Apple took so long to ship this they've all experienced the wonders of a ~$3k-$4k computer that was bought 2 years ago and runs circles around even the highest spec Mac Pro. The next tier down, your UX designers, visual designers, sound designers, print designers, type designers, etc. have no need for this that a Macbook Pro doesn't serve. Mac still has Final Cut Pro, Logic, and Sketch. Those apps are what tether creatives to the OS, not much else. But I think many, many people are seeing that PCs are becoming the better route for the creative industry, generally.

atonse 7y ago

This likely is a great machine for creative pros. But as a developer, I wanted a desktop class CPU and just a separate monitor (tired of hearing my laptop fans all the time, and it not being expandable), so I can upgrade them independently. So while developers are pros, we won't appreciate things like XDR because we don't need them, unlike movie studios and photographers. So a $5k monitor is overpriced for editing code. But I honestly would've shelled out even $2k for a good monitor. $5k is too much. The computer seems like a better value if you know you'd keep it for 5-10 years.

nvahalik 7y ago
I’m right here with you. Just built a Win10 machine because of thermal issues. I don’t even mind having a laptop but is it too much to ask to pay iMac prices for mid grade hardware??
- rock_artist 7y ago
  The thing is, it doesn't need to be Win10 machine. Even if you're developing for Apple. If you need a "Mac Dev" you can setup up any Intel based machine with macOS. It's not "plug-n-play" but it's not that far from getting Linux running with drivers and performance you'd expect it to.
  - atonse 7y ago
    Yeah but if it's your primary machine, you don't want to live under the spectre of being one bad update away from hosing a day or two of productivity. I already have that happening with node modules, don't need an additional thing :)
thirdsun 7y ago
> But as a developer, I wanted a desktop class CPU and just a separate monitor (tired of hearing my laptop fans all the time, and it not being expandable), so I can upgrade them independently. What's wrong with the Mac Mini? Sure, there's no way to upgrade the CPU, but considering the resale value of Apple hardware replacing the whole machine every few years is actually a worthwhile upgrade strategy. Of course the same sell and replace upgrade path applies to the iMac (Pro) - I understand that you would like to keep the display separate, but it's a fantastic display which doesn't really have any alternatives right now. I don't see how you could much better in that category. Of course, if MacOS isn't that important to you, this discussion isn't worth having - in that case you could buy whatever you want.
- atonse 7y ago
  I wish macOS wasn't as important, but honestly it's the most important. I don't want to switch back to Windows or Linux at this point since I'm too invested in the Apple ecosystem (and it's certainly the most privacy conscious option right now).
  - thirdsun 7y ago
    Same here. And that's exactly why the choice between upgradeability and macOS is still an easy one, at least for me. Sure, I'd love to build an affordable, modular computer, particularly since AMD's renaissance, but not if it means sacrificing macOS.

hbosch 7y ago

> As most of us here are with the developer hat. I think it's worth reminding that the target audience of those machines are Pro creatives. (those who didn't ditch Apple yet ;) ) I seriously wonder about those that haven't left Apple yet, that are willing to shell out $6k for a new Mac Pro. There was a small cohort of studios and creative professionals who invested into the old Mac Pro Trashcan and got severely burned by hardware that was overpriced, obsolete, and non-upgradable. Almost everyone I know who bought one of those ended up re-investing into a W10 PC with 1080s to TITANs or now 2080s. You can't do anything meaningful in 3D with the specs on this PC, so this machine is instantly DOA for the entire top-end of the (read: willing to spend $$$) creative field... that's motion graphics, animation, modeling, game design, VR, vis fx and simulation, etc. because since Apple took so long to ship this they've all experienced the wonders of a ~$3k-$4k computer that was bought 2 years ago and runs circles around even the highest spec Mac Pro. The next tier down, your UX designers, visual designers, sound designers, print designers, type designers, etc. have no need for this that a Macbook Pro doesn't serve. Mac still has Final Cut Pro, Logic, and Sketch. Those apps are what tether creatives to the OS, not much else. But I think many, many people are seeing that PCs are becoming the better route for the creative industry, generally.