5 ms·

What specific style of road design are you talking about? There are a variety of bike lanes with various compromises. I've seen DOT presentations consider the s

What specific style of road design are you talking about? There are a variety of bike lanes with various compromises. I've seen DOT presentations consider the situation, not pushing a certain design at all costs. There are multiple methods of left turns: https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/a/54628/37462 https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/a/54628/37462. From the bit I can gather from your post, I might use the "cross, stop, and pivot".

jtuente 7y ago
For simplicity, the left turn is a "traffic circle" for bicyclists around the automobile intersection.
ben7799 7y ago
Left turn Option 1 - "Cross Stop and Pivot" is likely illegal. Also you are riding right in front of cars that might be trying to turn right. And you're riding in an unexpected direction so you're surprising the cars. That's dangerous. It also means you likely need to wait for the light to change to take your left. If you don't, that's another dangerous moving violation. If you do, it takes a lot longer. Left Turn Option 2: This is the legal/safe way to do it. I don't understand where people think this requires great fitness. As traffic increases the cars move slower and slower and it gets easier to merge. The trick if you're slower is to merge earlier when you see an opening, then ride on the right or left side of the lane instead of right down the middle. Then you are not impeding traffic. People have trouble with this because they're afraid to be out in the lanes. Why would you think the gutter is safer? The cars whizz by you when you hug the right hand curb as well, and they actually can't see you as well. Using proper signals is key here. The only weakness of this method is a protected bike lane makes it almost impossible to do safely, even though this is the option that is written into the law as what you should be doing. The only other weakness is if you are taking a left and there are no cars around you will come across lights that won't change for a bicyclist! Some of these won't even change for a motorcycle... those are infuriating! Option 3 - Nothing wrong with this as long as you actually get off your bike. If you ride your bike in the crosswalk it's a moving violation. This method is REALLY slow. You will have to wait through multiple cycles of the light. This is infuriating enough as a pedestrian. The thing with Left turn Option 2 is if you get proficient & comfortable with it you will have VERY few times car drivers yell at you. Because you're behaving the way they do. Also you will save time at every intersection. If you are following me and you take Option 1 or 3 and I take Option 2 I will get to my destination much faster if we have the same fitness level. The only way you'll keep up is if you break a bunch of laws and put yourself or pedestrians in danger. I've been doing Option 2 for 20 years. I've done it in Manhattan if we have to have bragging rights about large cities. (I live in the Boston area, I've also bike commuted into Kendall Square near MIT.) It is no problem even across 3-4 lanes if you get good at it.
- asdff 7y ago
  Option one is posted on the signage in my local lanes. I'm not sure that it would be illegal anywhere (or enforced if it is). And sure you might be in front of cars trying to turn right, but the right on red turn being blocked happens all the time via cars just going straight or left. Usually right on red is prohibited for streets that cross the bike lane road as well. I don't think it would be surprising given you angle your bike to the direction of your travel (and going left takes you where you came from, going right takes you where you were heading to begin with, so where else are you logically going to go?), and light cycles are short enough where this isn't going to add a significant time compared with merging multiple lanes in traffic or waiting for a yield left (way more dangerous imo with people constantly running yellow lights).
  - ben7799 7y ago
    There isn't much correlation between what is posted on signs and what is safe and what is legal. We see all kinds of insanity in what gets painted on the road. The option to take the lane is always there and it always works. If you always follow what is posted some of the time you will be doing something incredibly dangerous. There's an intersection I go through very regularly on both car & bike (10-20x per week) on my way to work. If you are following the bike lane it actually makes you ride up to teh right onto a highway overpass ramp and then cross the highway overpass ramp and come back down it (wrong way) to get back to the path. If you're riding in the lane you just go straight through the intersection like a car. Which one of these do you think surprises the cars more and sets up more conflict?
- zten 7y ago
  > The thing with Left turn Option 2 is if you get proficient & comfortable with it you will have VERY few times car drivers yell at you. Because you're behaving the way they do. If they see you / you don't screw up... otherwise, you get https://www.outsideonline.com/2392955/lets-talk-about-drivers-hitting-cyclists https://www.outsideonline.com/2392955/lets-talk-about-driver... written about you. (edit: the article's situation is different, because it is describing a high speed rural road and not a city intersection.)
- 7y ago

jtuente 7y ago

For simplicity, the left turn is a "traffic circle" for bicyclists around the automobile intersection.

ben7799 7y ago

Left turn Option 1 - "Cross Stop and Pivot" is likely illegal. Also you are riding right in front of cars that might be trying to turn right. And you're riding in an unexpected direction so you're surprising the cars. That's dangerous. It also means you likely need to wait for the light to change to take your left. If you don't, that's another dangerous moving violation. If you do, it takes a lot longer. Left Turn Option 2: This is the legal/safe way to do it. I don't understand where people think this requires great fitness. As traffic increases the cars move slower and slower and it gets easier to merge. The trick if you're slower is to merge earlier when you see an opening, then ride on the right or left side of the lane instead of right down the middle. Then you are not impeding traffic. People have trouble with this because they're afraid to be out in the lanes. Why would you think the gutter is safer? The cars whizz by you when you hug the right hand curb as well, and they actually can't see you as well. Using proper signals is key here. The only weakness of this method is a protected bike lane makes it almost impossible to do safely, even though this is the option that is written into the law as what you should be doing. The only other weakness is if you are taking a left and there are no cars around you will come across lights that won't change for a bicyclist! Some of these won't even change for a motorcycle... those are infuriating! Option 3 - Nothing wrong with this as long as you actually get off your bike. If you ride your bike in the crosswalk it's a moving violation. This method is REALLY slow. You will have to wait through multiple cycles of the light. This is infuriating enough as a pedestrian. The thing with Left turn Option 2 is if you get proficient & comfortable with it you will have VERY few times car drivers yell at you. Because you're behaving the way they do. Also you will save time at every intersection. If you are following me and you take Option 1 or 3 and I take Option 2 I will get to my destination much faster if we have the same fitness level. The only way you'll keep up is if you break a bunch of laws and put yourself or pedestrians in danger. I've been doing Option 2 for 20 years. I've done it in Manhattan if we have to have bragging rights about large cities. (I live in the Boston area, I've also bike commuted into Kendall Square near MIT.) It is no problem even across 3-4 lanes if you get good at it.

asdff 7y ago
Option one is posted on the signage in my local lanes. I'm not sure that it would be illegal anywhere (or enforced if it is). And sure you might be in front of cars trying to turn right, but the right on red turn being blocked happens all the time via cars just going straight or left. Usually right on red is prohibited for streets that cross the bike lane road as well. I don't think it would be surprising given you angle your bike to the direction of your travel (and going left takes you where you came from, going right takes you where you were heading to begin with, so where else are you logically going to go?), and light cycles are short enough where this isn't going to add a significant time compared with merging multiple lanes in traffic or waiting for a yield left (way more dangerous imo with people constantly running yellow lights).
- ben7799 7y ago
  There isn't much correlation between what is posted on signs and what is safe and what is legal. We see all kinds of insanity in what gets painted on the road. The option to take the lane is always there and it always works. If you always follow what is posted some of the time you will be doing something incredibly dangerous. There's an intersection I go through very regularly on both car & bike (10-20x per week) on my way to work. If you are following the bike lane it actually makes you ride up to teh right onto a highway overpass ramp and then cross the highway overpass ramp and come back down it (wrong way) to get back to the path. If you're riding in the lane you just go straight through the intersection like a car. Which one of these do you think surprises the cars more and sets up more conflict?
zten 7y ago
> The thing with Left turn Option 2 is if you get proficient & comfortable with it you will have VERY few times car drivers yell at you. Because you're behaving the way they do. If they see you / you don't screw up... otherwise, you get https://www.outsideonline.com/2392955/lets-talk-about-drivers-hitting-cyclists https://www.outsideonline.com/2392955/lets-talk-about-driver... written about you. (edit: the article's situation is different, because it is describing a high speed rural road and not a city intersection.)
7y ago