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I wonder whether the 3 threatened investigations (Google by DoJ, Facebook by FTC, now Apple bu DoJ) are not so subtle signaling by the current administration to

I wonder whether the 3 threatened investigations (Google by DoJ, Facebook by FTC, now Apple bu DoJ) are not so subtle signaling by the current administration to fall in line (China trade war, working with Pentagon on AI, etc) "or else". There's little evidence, but the fact that these 3 major companies are now moved against in roughly the same timeframe while the administration and DoJ have already their hands more than full is suggestive ...

darkpuma 7y ago
> "the 3 threatened investigations (Google by DoJ, Facebook by FTC, now Apple bu DoJ)" Maybe four, Amazon too: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/06/02/amazon-could-face-heightened-antitrust-scrutiny-under-new-agreement-between-us-regulators/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/06/02/amazon-...
- jcadam 7y ago
  Well, AWS has been pretty egregious in their behavior toward the open source community.
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> subtle signaling by the current administration to fall in line Everyone who's been lobbying for one of these investigations has been lobbying for the other three. A couple key folks at the DoJ started prioritizing tech antitrust, in part due to some other time-consuming matters having recently been sunset. (Previously, it was being pursued as a civil matter though the regulators. Big legal teams have an easier time squashing those compared.) No need for a political conspiracy. (In any case, these investigations take a long time to get going. None of these efforts were started in even the last months.)
- golem14 7y ago
  Agreed, but again, the fact that these all happen in the same time frame is weird. I guess each of the investigations will tie up a lot of resources, but all 4 at the same time seem pretty taxing to an already busy admin. Also, noone here has been suggesting a conspiracy.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - colechristensen 7y ago
    It does seem a bit convenient, but on the other hand if you put a positive spin on it, in the ideal world you would want investigations of the big n tech companies to happen at the same time and not play "favorites" by doing one first and letting the others benefit. Whether or not they violate existing statute, they all seem to be abusing their power in various ways. (Google and Facebook with personal information, ad handling, and interoperability, Apple with walled garden and no-competition apps, et al.)
    - golem14 7y ago
      Agreed that in general, there is a danger of playing "favorites" by doing one first and letting the others benefit. Hasn't stopped DoJ etc in the past though. Also, I'm not saying it's a bad development for consumers if the investigations and legal actions actually come to pass (not sure how much is "considered" vs "definitely planned" vs "initiated and staffed").
- matthewdgreen 7y ago
  Under another administration (either Democratic or Republican) it might be reasonable to accept this explanation. The problem with this administration is that "assume this decision is being made by career employees acting with no political self-interest" has not proven to be a good betting position.
  - mwfunk 7y ago
    In fact, Occam’s Razor would suggest that any action taken by this administration should be assumed to be politically motivated, barring evidence to the contrary. Especially since the current administration has always been very vocally hostile to any sort of regulatory or antitrust action.
    - creaghpatr 7y ago
      The house judiciary committee is democrat-controlled, so at the very least it's a bipartisan investigation(s). Both parties have spoken out on antitrust (if only for separate, self-interested purposes). https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/03/tech/tech-antitrust-house-probe/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/03/tech/tech-antitrust-house-pro... >The Democratic-led investigation comes as the Justice Department and the Federal Trade Commission are taking their first steps toward a potential probe of their own into Google, according to three people familiar with the matter. Regulators have negotiated to divide oversight of the tech industry between the two agencies in recent weeks, these people said. The two agencies have also reportedly split up oversight of Amazon, Apple and Facebook.
    - cabaalis 7y ago
      I try very hard to give some grace to the "Trump bad in everything" that I hear so much. However, his moronic tweets aside, I see nothing more than normal politicking, and right-of-center governance. The biggest flaw I see is the inability to admit and correct policy problems, which is absolutely not unique to President Trump.
      - Nasrudith 7y ago
        Privatized child cages for the explicit reason of brutalizing those applying for asylum are normal right of center governance? Calling an investigation which found numerous cases of foreign involvement a coup? I think you might be suffering from severe change blindness.
- pmart123 7y ago
  This seems right. I know people in the venture and tech community that have been receiving inquiries for close to a year on whether big tech is too big. Of course, the venture community has a biased "expert opinion" given its in their best interest to weaken incumbents and open up lanes for new startups versus conveying what is the best course for the consumer.
pessimizer 7y ago
As far as I can tell, this administration's only tactic is to announce an imminent attack on some country or company, then announce a meeting with them, then prematurely announce a "deal" followed with flattery through Trump's twitter feed. The attacked entity denies there was any deal at first, then just shuts up, and the attack drops out of the news cycle.
davidw 7y ago
It's always confusing with this administration whether some actions fall under one of 1) "Trump wants it" 2) it's a fairly normal shift in focus that probably would have occurred under most R administrations or 3) it's just someone at the given agency doing their job as best as possible. I mean, there are ample reasons to have a good hard look at some of these companies, but with all the blatant corruption and stupidity from Trump and company, it makes you wonder.
3xblah 7y ago
"I've been taking companies to Washington where they've complained about Google for a long time and there were politicians blocking it once, but the blockers aren't there anymore," Reback said. "I don't know if it's the Trump administration that triggered it exactly but it could have been what broke the dam." - Gary Reback, http://www.carrferrell.com/attorneys/gary-reback http://www.carrferrell.com/attorneys/gary-reback "The last time that technology companies faced this kind of scrutiny was Google's antitrust investigation, or the now twenty-one year old lawsuit brought by the Justice Department and multiple states against Microsoft. But times have changed since Google had its hearing before a much friendlier audience of regulators under President Barack Obama. These days, Republican and Democratic lawmakers are both making the case that big technology companies hold too much power in American political and economic life. Issues around personal privacy, economic consolidation, misinformation and free speech are on the minds of both Republican and Democratic lawmakers." - Techcrunch If no investigation has been announced and no case has been filed, is there a document hold? If not, these "threats" may be signalling these companies to find and destroy incriminating evidence, and giving them the time to do it.
YeahSureWhyNot 7y ago
if by current administration you are implying trump and republican party then I have to remind you that its actually the house democrats who announced it,
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  I think you are confusing the executive branch (Justice Dept, etc.) with the legislative branch (e.g., House Judiciary.) This article is about the former, though the latter has also announced investigations.
- gwright 7y ago
  If the two parties could take a breath and not automatically reject ideas from each other they might find that there is some common ground here.
  - zimpenfish 7y ago
    Could you list some instances where the Democrats have automatically rejected ideas from the Republicans? And then perhaps contrast that with the corresponding list from the other side? From my viewpoint in UKOGBANI, the Democrats just plain don't do this whilst the Republicans (and particularly McConnell) wilfully delight in blocking -anything- they can.
Shivetya 7y ago
totally ignoring the fact the EU has been on them already. In general it isn't the Administration you need to fear you need to fear Congress using it as leverage to restrict speech, who can speak and what they can say, and finally laws on how law enforcement will have rights to obtain secure communications in support of it. don't get caught up in the fake news, foreign influence of elections, and other malarkey. This is just cover to prevent any political speech outside of what the two political parties approve of getting any outlet. Remember that politicians have near unlimited means to get their message out and loathe the idea they cannot control others from not doing the same.
- croon 7y ago
  > don't get caught up in the fake news, foreign influence of elections, and other malarkey I wonder why most mentions of "fake news" I hear are from people reading fake news. If you honestly don't believe in foreign influence of elections you need to reassess your world model and belief structure. It's not just (myriad) US intelligence agencies confirming it, but other countries. If your conspiracy hinges on that much coordination, you should probably apply Occam's razor. Whether this issue is the driving force in these probes or not is still debatable, of course.

darkpuma 7y ago

> "the 3 threatened investigations (Google by DoJ, Facebook by FTC, now Apple bu DoJ)" Maybe four, Amazon too: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/06/02/amazon-could-face-heightened-antitrust-scrutiny-under-new-agreement-between-us-regulators/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/06/02/amazon-...

jcadam 7y ago
Well, AWS has been pretty egregious in their behavior toward the open source community.

JumpCrisscross 7y ago

> subtle signaling by the current administration to fall in line Everyone who's been lobbying for one of these investigations has been lobbying for the other three. A couple key folks at the DoJ started prioritizing tech antitrust, in part due to some other time-consuming matters having recently been sunset. (Previously, it was being pursued as a civil matter though the regulators. Big legal teams have an easier time squashing those compared.) No need for a political conspiracy. (In any case, these investigations take a long time to get going. None of these efforts were started in even the last months.)

golem14 7y ago
Agreed, but again, the fact that these all happen in the same time frame is weird. I guess each of the investigations will tie up a lot of resources, but all 4 at the same time seem pretty taxing to an already busy admin. Also, noone here has been suggesting a conspiracy.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- colechristensen 7y ago
  It does seem a bit convenient, but on the other hand if you put a positive spin on it, in the ideal world you would want investigations of the big n tech companies to happen at the same time and not play "favorites" by doing one first and letting the others benefit. Whether or not they violate existing statute, they all seem to be abusing their power in various ways. (Google and Facebook with personal information, ad handling, and interoperability, Apple with walled garden and no-competition apps, et al.)
  - golem14 7y ago
    Agreed that in general, there is a danger of playing "favorites" by doing one first and letting the others benefit. Hasn't stopped DoJ etc in the past though. Also, I'm not saying it's a bad development for consumers if the investigations and legal actions actually come to pass (not sure how much is "considered" vs "definitely planned" vs "initiated and staffed").
matthewdgreen 7y ago
Under another administration (either Democratic or Republican) it might be reasonable to accept this explanation. The problem with this administration is that "assume this decision is being made by career employees acting with no political self-interest" has not proven to be a good betting position.
- mwfunk 7y ago
  In fact, Occam’s Razor would suggest that any action taken by this administration should be assumed to be politically motivated, barring evidence to the contrary. Especially since the current administration has always been very vocally hostile to any sort of regulatory or antitrust action.
  - creaghpatr 7y ago
    The house judiciary committee is democrat-controlled, so at the very least it's a bipartisan investigation(s). Both parties have spoken out on antitrust (if only for separate, self-interested purposes). https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/03/tech/tech-antitrust-house-probe/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/03/tech/tech-antitrust-house-pro... >The Democratic-led investigation comes as the Justice Department and the Federal Trade Commission are taking their first steps toward a potential probe of their own into Google, according to three people familiar with the matter. Regulators have negotiated to divide oversight of the tech industry between the two agencies in recent weeks, these people said. The two agencies have also reportedly split up oversight of Amazon, Apple and Facebook.
  - cabaalis 7y ago
    I try very hard to give some grace to the "Trump bad in everything" that I hear so much. However, his moronic tweets aside, I see nothing more than normal politicking, and right-of-center governance. The biggest flaw I see is the inability to admit and correct policy problems, which is absolutely not unique to President Trump.
    - Nasrudith 7y ago
      Privatized child cages for the explicit reason of brutalizing those applying for asylum are normal right of center governance? Calling an investigation which found numerous cases of foreign involvement a coup? I think you might be suffering from severe change blindness.
pmart123 7y ago
This seems right. I know people in the venture and tech community that have been receiving inquiries for close to a year on whether big tech is too big. Of course, the venture community has a biased "expert opinion" given its in their best interest to weaken incumbents and open up lanes for new startups versus conveying what is the best course for the consumer.

pessimizer 7y ago

As far as I can tell, this administration's only tactic is to announce an imminent attack on some country or company, then announce a meeting with them, then prematurely announce a "deal" followed with flattery through Trump's twitter feed. The attacked entity denies there was any deal at first, then just shuts up, and the attack drops out of the news cycle.

davidw 7y ago

It's always confusing with this administration whether some actions fall under one of 1) "Trump wants it" 2) it's a fairly normal shift in focus that probably would have occurred under most R administrations or 3) it's just someone at the given agency doing their job as best as possible. I mean, there are ample reasons to have a good hard look at some of these companies, but with all the blatant corruption and stupidity from Trump and company, it makes you wonder.

3xblah 7y ago

"I've been taking companies to Washington where they've complained about Google for a long time and there were politicians blocking it once, but the blockers aren't there anymore," Reback said. "I don't know if it's the Trump administration that triggered it exactly but it could have been what broke the dam." - Gary Reback, http://www.carrferrell.com/attorneys/gary-reback http://www.carrferrell.com/attorneys/gary-reback "The last time that technology companies faced this kind of scrutiny was Google's antitrust investigation, or the now twenty-one year old lawsuit brought by the Justice Department and multiple states against Microsoft. But times have changed since Google had its hearing before a much friendlier audience of regulators under President Barack Obama. These days, Republican and Democratic lawmakers are both making the case that big technology companies hold too much power in American political and economic life. Issues around personal privacy, economic consolidation, misinformation and free speech are on the minds of both Republican and Democratic lawmakers." - Techcrunch If no investigation has been announced and no case has been filed, is there a document hold? If not, these "threats" may be signalling these companies to find and destroy incriminating evidence, and giving them the time to do it.

YeahSureWhyNot 7y ago

if by current administration you are implying trump and republican party then I have to remind you that its actually the house democrats who announced it,

dragonwriter 7y ago
I think you are confusing the executive branch (Justice Dept, etc.) with the legislative branch (e.g., House Judiciary.) This article is about the former, though the latter has also announced investigations.
gwright 7y ago
If the two parties could take a breath and not automatically reject ideas from each other they might find that there is some common ground here.
- zimpenfish 7y ago
  Could you list some instances where the Democrats have automatically rejected ideas from the Republicans? And then perhaps contrast that with the corresponding list from the other side? From my viewpoint in UKOGBANI, the Democrats just plain don't do this whilst the Republicans (and particularly McConnell) wilfully delight in blocking -anything- they can.

Shivetya 7y ago

totally ignoring the fact the EU has been on them already. In general it isn't the Administration you need to fear you need to fear Congress using it as leverage to restrict speech, who can speak and what they can say, and finally laws on how law enforcement will have rights to obtain secure communications in support of it. don't get caught up in the fake news, foreign influence of elections, and other malarkey. This is just cover to prevent any political speech outside of what the two political parties approve of getting any outlet. Remember that politicians have near unlimited means to get their message out and loathe the idea they cannot control others from not doing the same.

croon 7y ago
> don't get caught up in the fake news, foreign influence of elections, and other malarkey I wonder why most mentions of "fake news" I hear are from people reading fake news. If you honestly don't believe in foreign influence of elections you need to reassess your world model and belief structure. It's not just (myriad) US intelligence agencies confirming it, but other countries. If your conspiracy hinges on that much coordination, you should probably apply Occam's razor. Whether this issue is the driving force in these probes or not is still debatable, of course.