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Sounds like a good time to remind people about Telegram having a similar function for quite some time now. And just yesterday they announced a feature to simpli

by dpq 7y ago

Sounds like a good time to remind people about Telegram having a similar function for quite some time now. And just yesterday they announced a feature to simplify logging into web sites using TG bots: https://telegram.org/blog/privacy-discussions-web-bots https://telegram.org/blog/privacy-discussions-web-bots It might be a personal choice, but for stuff when privacy is really important I'd definitely pick Telegram over Apple, no matter how much the latter claims to keep me safe from three-letter agencies as well as marketers.

saagarjha 7y ago
> I'd definitely pick Telegram over Apple Why?
- eitland 7y ago
  Works everywhere with the devices and OS you have like (or can afford): Android, Linux desktop, Mac, iOS, Windows and more.
  - Asmod4n 7y ago
    Telegrams end to end encryption is locked to the two devices which started it, so it’s totally useless when you want it across devices.
    - eitland 7y ago
      How is this related to login?
- dpq 7y ago
  For a start, I don't own, and don't want Apple devices. Also, stories about FISA overreach, PRISM, the rest of the alphabet soup plus gag orders do not particularly inspire confidence.
  - w3rhn2j34oh5o 7y ago
    then use signal. friends don't let friends use telegram. Signal gives you all of this without the snake oil that telegram is selling you.
    - dpq 7y ago
      You use pretty strong language and have your facts wrong (in the post above when you say chats are stored in plain text). What's your angle? Also, we are discussing web login options here which afaik Signal doesn't support.
      - w3rhn2j34oh5o 7y ago
        My angle is stopping folks using and recommending telegram. Where are my facts wrong?
        dpq 7y ago
        Like I said, the chats are stored (or are claimed to be stored) in an encrypted form. But I think I understand why it may count as "stored unencrypted" in your eyes. Still, Signal won't cut it. It's too inconvenient to use, and while maybe it provides better security it's like a very strong password policy in a company that entices users to just write down passwords on Post-it notes. I couldn't get my friends use Signal, it's not there yet in terms of user friendliness (hell, I wouldn't use it). But Telegram works for me, and I consider it a substantial improvement over Whatsapp. YMMV.
    - dcbadacd 7y ago
      Signal requires a phone number. If anything, use Keybase, you'll also get good team handling, file sharing and bunch of other nice convinience features.
w3rhn2j34oh5o 7y ago
Telegram is unencrypted by default. All standard messages are stored on the server. Telegrams secret chat mode (end-to-end encryption) uses home made cryptography, and has been panned by experts in past. All group chat is in the clear and stored on the server. This is not the case with imessage. Comparing Telegram to iMessage, telegram is not in the same league as Apple. I don't trust either from TLA's or well funded adversaries.
- golergka 7y ago
  > All standard messages are stored on the server. It's a feature: history synchronization between different devices and fast search through hundreds of thousands of messages is, for most uses and users, more important than concerns that Telegram or nation-state level attackers (one capable of silently breaching Telegram infrastructure) would choose to read your chats.
  - w3rhn2j34oh5o 7y ago
    Signal also does historical synchronization between devices. It bootstraps the history from another device. It also has search which can be done locally. Telegram is, by design, capable of being accessed by 3rd parties (beyond governments). iMessage is capable of being accessed by 3rd parties via iCloud backups, which is an opt-in situation. Be aware, wechat sends every message with geolocation to the authorities in real time. It is more critical than ever that we be aware of the mechanisms in the systems we build and use -- else dystopia awaits.
- Tepix 7y ago
  It‘s not homemade crypto. It‘s just not the latest and greatest modern crypto but it has no glaring weakness.
  - w3rhn2j34oh5o 7y ago
    Granted, there are no known weaknesses with their protocol -- however, Telegram leads the user to believe their conversations are encrypted, which, unless they opted in to secret chats (and this is not supported on desktop ), its all in the clear. So if you are using it on desktop, all your messages belong to Telegram, and whomever they are sharing it with.

by dpq 7y ago

saagarjha 7y ago

> I'd definitely pick Telegram over Apple Why?

eitland 7y ago
Works everywhere with the devices and OS you have like (or can afford): Android, Linux desktop, Mac, iOS, Windows and more.
- Asmod4n 7y ago
  Telegrams end to end encryption is locked to the two devices which started it, so it’s totally useless when you want it across devices.
  - eitland 7y ago
    How is this related to login?
dpq 7y ago
For a start, I don't own, and don't want Apple devices. Also, stories about FISA overreach, PRISM, the rest of the alphabet soup plus gag orders do not particularly inspire confidence.
- w3rhn2j34oh5o 7y ago
  then use signal. friends don't let friends use telegram. Signal gives you all of this without the snake oil that telegram is selling you.
  - dpq 7y ago
    You use pretty strong language and have your facts wrong (in the post above when you say chats are stored in plain text). What's your angle? Also, we are discussing web login options here which afaik Signal doesn't support.
    - w3rhn2j34oh5o 7y ago
      My angle is stopping folks using and recommending telegram. Where are my facts wrong?
      - dpq 7y ago
        Like I said, the chats are stored (or are claimed to be stored) in an encrypted form. But I think I understand why it may count as "stored unencrypted" in your eyes. Still, Signal won't cut it. It's too inconvenient to use, and while maybe it provides better security it's like a very strong password policy in a company that entices users to just write down passwords on Post-it notes. I couldn't get my friends use Signal, it's not there yet in terms of user friendliness (hell, I wouldn't use it). But Telegram works for me, and I consider it a substantial improvement over Whatsapp. YMMV.
  - dcbadacd 7y ago
    Signal requires a phone number. If anything, use Keybase, you'll also get good team handling, file sharing and bunch of other nice convinience features.

w3rhn2j34oh5o 7y ago

Telegram is unencrypted by default. All standard messages are stored on the server. Telegrams secret chat mode (end-to-end encryption) uses home made cryptography, and has been panned by experts in past. All group chat is in the clear and stored on the server. This is not the case with imessage. Comparing Telegram to iMessage, telegram is not in the same league as Apple. I don't trust either from TLA's or well funded adversaries.

golergka 7y ago
> All standard messages are stored on the server. It's a feature: history synchronization between different devices and fast search through hundreds of thousands of messages is, for most uses and users, more important than concerns that Telegram or nation-state level attackers (one capable of silently breaching Telegram infrastructure) would choose to read your chats.
- w3rhn2j34oh5o 7y ago
  Signal also does historical synchronization between devices. It bootstraps the history from another device. It also has search which can be done locally. Telegram is, by design, capable of being accessed by 3rd parties (beyond governments). iMessage is capable of being accessed by 3rd parties via iCloud backups, which is an opt-in situation. Be aware, wechat sends every message with geolocation to the authorities in real time. It is more critical than ever that we be aware of the mechanisms in the systems we build and use -- else dystopia awaits.
Tepix 7y ago
It‘s not homemade crypto. It‘s just not the latest and greatest modern crypto but it has no glaring weakness.
- w3rhn2j34oh5o 7y ago
  Granted, there are no known weaknesses with their protocol -- however, Telegram leads the user to believe their conversations are encrypted, which, unless they opted in to secret chats (and this is not supported on desktop ), its all in the clear. So if you are using it on desktop, all your messages belong to Telegram, and whomever they are sharing it with.