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Does anyone here think markets alone could solve this problem? Or do you see that coordinated group action is necessary to practically solve problems markets ca

Does anyone here think markets alone could solve this problem? Or do you see that coordinated group action is necessary to practically solve problems markets can’t fix?

Qwertystop 7y ago
Markets clearly haven't solved the problem. They've certainly had the time.
- DuskStar 7y ago
  Markets partially solved this problem a more than a century ago - the solution was "really shitty, cheap, shared housing". As a society we decided that such housing was unacceptable and banned it without providing a replacement. "This enormously regulated industry doesn't yield outcomes we like for the poor! Obviously markets cannot solve this problem!" is a disturbingly common argument.
  - ars 7y ago
    They were called "Rooming Houses" and we should bring them back.
    - devereaux 7y ago
      The beautiful thing with democracy is that these housing solutions that provided an actual solution to homelessness where banned, are still illegal, and thus won't be "brought back" even if they make perfect sense, were preferred by the people who used them, are a free market solution, and much cheaper than the alternatives. See San Francisco as an example of what happens when more money is poured in the "modern" solutions - very little reduction of the problem, if any.
  - redisman 7y ago
    I usually don't like libertarian solutions but this is not a bad idea given the United States' inability to solve the issue with their current tools. Right now we're very inefficiently running a couple of slightly better but very constrained in throughput homeless shelters instead.
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
    Who's the "we decided"? Nobody in particular did actually... So yes, markets failed to provide very cheap housing and not for lack of cheap land or costs of construction. It's just because they provide even worse profit margins. Deregulating the industry won't help with that.
    - fiter 7y ago
      The person you're replying to is referring to zoning and codes which preclude the economical construction of such rooming houses / SROs. These are decided on by elected government officials which very much means we decided.
yitosda 7y ago
Depends on how you define "the problem". Homelessness is a symptom of several other things widely considered to be problems. If you limit the problem to "some people who want a house don't have enough money to afford living space qualifying as a house", then broadly speaking market solutions are possible because we can assume these people participate in the market via their "demand" and their ability to "supply" something in return. Obviously there's an active debate on many market issues here, whether around too much market regulation (eg NIMBY), or too little market regulation (eg minimum wage). However, my understanding is that there is mounting evidence that the homeless population is composed of people who have either no demand for a house ("free spirits") or no ability to supply anything to the market (mentally disabled). Obviously in these cases the market is not very useful, and only functions insomuch as those outside of the homeless population include it in their "demand function".
WhompingWindows 7y ago
Homelessness would never be "solved" completely, by market or government, as there are always going to be people who transition into homelessness for unexpected/emergency reasons. Would a market prevent tenuous financial situations, broken family ties, substance use disorders, schizophrenia, PTSD, domestic violence, intimate partner violence? The causes of homelessness are too multi-factorial and hard to prevent, I think the best we can do is a dramatic reduction, not a complete solution. In my opinion, to solve all of these predisposing/causative factors, we'd need a much much stronger healthcare system, and probably UBI or a strong welfare system, to cover all the above scenarios. Even so, good healthcare and welfare won't matter that much in acute emergency scenarios, for that we need vigilance and persistence and unrelenting altruism.

Does anyone here think markets alone could solve this problem? Or do you see that coordinated group action is necessary to practically solve problems markets can’t fix?

Qwertystop 7y ago

Markets clearly haven't solved the problem. They've certainly had the time.

DuskStar 7y ago
Markets partially solved this problem a more than a century ago - the solution was "really shitty, cheap, shared housing". As a society we decided that such housing was unacceptable and banned it without providing a replacement. "This enormously regulated industry doesn't yield outcomes we like for the poor! Obviously markets cannot solve this problem!" is a disturbingly common argument.
- ars 7y ago
  They were called "Rooming Houses" and we should bring them back.
  - devereaux 7y ago
    The beautiful thing with democracy is that these housing solutions that provided an actual solution to homelessness where banned, are still illegal, and thus won't be "brought back" even if they make perfect sense, were preferred by the people who used them, are a free market solution, and much cheaper than the alternatives. See San Francisco as an example of what happens when more money is poured in the "modern" solutions - very little reduction of the problem, if any.
- redisman 7y ago
  I usually don't like libertarian solutions but this is not a bad idea given the United States' inability to solve the issue with their current tools. Right now we're very inefficiently running a couple of slightly better but very constrained in throughput homeless shelters instead.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  Who's the "we decided"? Nobody in particular did actually... So yes, markets failed to provide very cheap housing and not for lack of cheap land or costs of construction. It's just because they provide even worse profit margins. Deregulating the industry won't help with that.
  - fiter 7y ago
    The person you're replying to is referring to zoning and codes which preclude the economical construction of such rooming houses / SROs. These are decided on by elected government officials which very much means we decided.

yitosda 7y ago

Depends on how you define "the problem". Homelessness is a symptom of several other things widely considered to be problems. If you limit the problem to "some people who want a house don't have enough money to afford living space qualifying as a house", then broadly speaking market solutions are possible because we can assume these people participate in the market via their "demand" and their ability to "supply" something in return. Obviously there's an active debate on many market issues here, whether around too much market regulation (eg NIMBY), or too little market regulation (eg minimum wage). However, my understanding is that there is mounting evidence that the homeless population is composed of people who have either no demand for a house ("free spirits") or no ability to supply anything to the market (mentally disabled). Obviously in these cases the market is not very useful, and only functions insomuch as those outside of the homeless population include it in their "demand function".

WhompingWindows 7y ago

Homelessness would never be "solved" completely, by market or government, as there are always going to be people who transition into homelessness for unexpected/emergency reasons. Would a market prevent tenuous financial situations, broken family ties, substance use disorders, schizophrenia, PTSD, domestic violence, intimate partner violence? The causes of homelessness are too multi-factorial and hard to prevent, I think the best we can do is a dramatic reduction, not a complete solution. In my opinion, to solve all of these predisposing/causative factors, we'd need a much much stronger healthcare system, and probably UBI or a strong welfare system, to cover all the above scenarios. Even so, good healthcare and welfare won't matter that much in acute emergency scenarios, for that we need vigilance and persistence and unrelenting altruism.