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Some of those issues are issues that all populations face (death from disease, government bureaucracy, policing, destruction of environment). I don't think its

by jbob2000 7y ago

Some of those issues are issues that all populations face (death from disease, government bureaucracy, policing, destruction of environment). I don't think its fair to claim that these are intentional parts of a genocide. There definitely were some bad policies in the past (residential schools, no oversight on medical care, lack of diversity in policing), but the rest is just a culture clash between two completely incompatible cultures. That's not a genocide, it's just a shitty side effect of two cultures trying to find a way to be compatible with one another.

DoreenMichele 7y ago
The outcome is so incredibly one sided that framing it as an unfortunate side effect of a culture clash is not exactly a nice thing to do.
- jbob2000 7y ago
  It's not one sided though. The colonists who brought disease over were also dying from the disease (and they didn't bring it over to explicitly wipe out the indigenous population). The destruction of the environment affects everyone, we pull our food from the same land as the indigenous peoples. And again, we didn't destroy the environment to explicitly wipe out indigenous populations. Indigenous people aren't alone in experiencing these issues, you can't just add them to your list to give weight to the "genocide".
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    It's extremely one-sided. Europeans showed up and assumed the land was unoccupied because the people already here related to it differently. This is the most even-handed, compassionate for both sides approach I can think of for explaining how things went so very wrong without assuming the settlers were being intentionally malicious(and I happened to write it): https://1001histories.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-little-known-bear-river-massacre.html https://1001histories.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-little-known-... But there comes a point past which the callous indifference that goes on to this very day, where Indigenous women are raped and murdered at some crazy high rate, like 10 or 12 times as much as other women, cannot be excused as some sort of innocent faux pas where whites, ever so sadly, simply had no idea. Crimes do not only occur because someone did a bad thing. Crimes can also occur because people said "Eh, not my problem." and did nothing to prevent it. Criminal negligence, felony manslaughter -- these are concepts and legal standards we already have. No one needs to invent them whole cloth to talk about what is wrong with Indigenous peoples continuing to suffer so very much while so many people say "Not my problem." I've said my piece. I don't plan to engage this further. I don't believe you really want to take the issue seriously.

DoreenMichele 7y ago

The outcome is so incredibly one sided that framing it as an unfortunate side effect of a culture clash is not exactly a nice thing to do.

jbob2000 7y ago
It's not one sided though. The colonists who brought disease over were also dying from the disease (and they didn't bring it over to explicitly wipe out the indigenous population). The destruction of the environment affects everyone, we pull our food from the same land as the indigenous peoples. And again, we didn't destroy the environment to explicitly wipe out indigenous populations. Indigenous people aren't alone in experiencing these issues, you can't just add them to your list to give weight to the "genocide".
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  It's extremely one-sided. Europeans showed up and assumed the land was unoccupied because the people already here related to it differently. This is the most even-handed, compassionate for both sides approach I can think of for explaining how things went so very wrong without assuming the settlers were being intentionally malicious(and I happened to write it): https://1001histories.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-little-known-bear-river-massacre.html https://1001histories.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-little-known-... But there comes a point past which the callous indifference that goes on to this very day, where Indigenous women are raped and murdered at some crazy high rate, like 10 or 12 times as much as other women, cannot be excused as some sort of innocent faux pas where whites, ever so sadly, simply had no idea. Crimes do not only occur because someone did a bad thing. Crimes can also occur because people said "Eh, not my problem." and did nothing to prevent it. Criminal negligence, felony manslaughter -- these are concepts and legal standards we already have. No one needs to invent them whole cloth to talk about what is wrong with Indigenous peoples continuing to suffer so very much while so many people say "Not my problem." I've said my piece. I don't plan to engage this further. I don't believe you really want to take the issue seriously.