4 ms·

What would prevent a federal system from working in China?

jhedwards 7y ago
I believe China does in fact have a federal system. Everything is integrated all the way up to the top but every province does have its own government with some degree of autonomy as far as I know. When I lived in Hunan for example the Hunan government was doing some projects with foreign lawyers to develop laws protecting victims of domestic abuse.
- ajdlinux 7y ago
  > every province does have its own government with some degree of autonomy That's not a federal system as generally understood. Generally, the distinction between a federal system and a unitary state with somewhat-autonomous subdivisions is that in a federal system, the powers of the subnational entities are constitutionally entrenched, whereas in a unitary state, the autonomy of a subnational division is at the will of the national government. The overwhelming majority of countries have some form of autonomous regional government, because it's impossible to run any sufficiently large country any other way, but the majority of countries are not federations.
pishpash 7y ago
For one, you'll get the same problems as all the homeless pouring into California, or poorer Central Americans pouring over the border, and the subsequent backlash. Democracies will not support the sort of development model that China has pursued of massive wealth transfer and development of the hinterlands. Developed areas will want to wall themselves off but less developed areas will want populist policies. Add on top of that ethnic issues that would be easily exploitable by demagogues. More likely than not the country falls apart. Don't be so smug, the US and EU are only getting a small taste of the sort of problems that China has been facing for several thousand years as a diverse centralized state, and are already resorting to the sort of things that China ended up having to do with respect to social control and stability.
- komali2 7y ago
  Why doesn't India have this problem?
  - pishpash 7y ago
    Well yes, the other model is India where they tolerate certain problems and let them go on forever, but people can bitch about it. Analogous to the phenomenon of adults peeing and doing drugs on the streets of downtown SF. Not saying it's better or worse in the end but at the least, the experiment goes on.
    - komali2 7y ago
      India is trying very hard to solve their problems, I'm curious where you get the idea that they're letting them "go on forever." https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/03/world/asia/india-toilet-movie.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/03/world/asia/india-toilet-m... Regarding peeing specifically, India has a Nationwide push for increasing toilet infrastructure. The change over the past five years, let alone ten, is dramatic. Possibly faster than anything in human history. I also don't understand why you think nobody is doing anything about people using the restroom on the streets of SF - new bathroom trailers are being added. It's not much but it's something, and more are coming. If you have other ideas, would you like to join me tomorrow at 2pm for the next board of supervisors meeting to present them to the city?
- pcwalton 7y ago
  Homeless people aren't pouring into California. Most of the homeless are natives.

I believe China does in fact have a federal system. Everything is integrated all the way up to the top but every province does have its own government with some degree of autonomy as far as I know. When I lived in Hunan for example the Hunan government was doing some projects with foreign lawyers to develop laws protecting victims of domestic abuse.

ajdlinux 7y ago
> every province does have its own government with some degree of autonomy That's not a federal system as generally understood. Generally, the distinction between a federal system and a unitary state with somewhat-autonomous subdivisions is that in a federal system, the powers of the subnational entities are constitutionally entrenched, whereas in a unitary state, the autonomy of a subnational division is at the will of the national government. The overwhelming majority of countries have some form of autonomous regional government, because it's impossible to run any sufficiently large country any other way, but the majority of countries are not federations.

pishpash 7y ago

For one, you'll get the same problems as all the homeless pouring into California, or poorer Central Americans pouring over the border, and the subsequent backlash. Democracies will not support the sort of development model that China has pursued of massive wealth transfer and development of the hinterlands. Developed areas will want to wall themselves off but less developed areas will want populist policies. Add on top of that ethnic issues that would be easily exploitable by demagogues. More likely than not the country falls apart. Don't be so smug, the US and EU are only getting a small taste of the sort of problems that China has been facing for several thousand years as a diverse centralized state, and are already resorting to the sort of things that China ended up having to do with respect to social control and stability.

komali2 7y ago
Why doesn't India have this problem?
- pishpash 7y ago
  Well yes, the other model is India where they tolerate certain problems and let them go on forever, but people can bitch about it. Analogous to the phenomenon of adults peeing and doing drugs on the streets of downtown SF. Not saying it's better or worse in the end but at the least, the experiment goes on.
  - komali2 7y ago
    India is trying very hard to solve their problems, I'm curious where you get the idea that they're letting them "go on forever." https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/03/world/asia/india-toilet-movie.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/03/world/asia/india-toilet-m... Regarding peeing specifically, India has a Nationwide push for increasing toilet infrastructure. The change over the past five years, let alone ten, is dramatic. Possibly faster than anything in human history. I also don't understand why you think nobody is doing anything about people using the restroom on the streets of SF - new bathroom trailers are being added. It's not much but it's something, and more are coming. If you have other ideas, would you like to join me tomorrow at 2pm for the next board of supervisors meeting to present them to the city?
pcwalton 7y ago
Homeless people aren't pouring into California. Most of the homeless are natives.