4 ms·

RunwayFinder says: They won’t talk to me. Instead I’m stuck dealing with their lawyers who twice said that if RunwayFinder pays a license fee (would you like 1

RunwayFinder says: They won’t talk to me. Instead I’m stuck dealing with their lawyers who twice said that if RunwayFinder pays a license fee (would you like 10% or 20% of zero?) or removes the website that they will drop the lawsuit. Unfortunately, they are now reneging on that and posturing for more. They are claiming damages of $3.2M per month. FlightPrep responds: http://blog.flightprep.com/2010/12/regarding-runwayfinder-shutting-down.html http://blog.flightprep.com/2010/12/regarding-runwayfinder-sh... FlightPrep stands by its offer to grant a free-license to RunwayFinder to operate its website during this negotiation phase of our legal dispute. We are not asking RunwayFinder to shut down and in-fact are offering them a temporary free-pass at our technology in hopes that this gesture of goodwill will better enable both RunwayFinder and FlightPrep to constructively work toward a mutually beneficial long-term solution. Doesn't absolve them of hefting lawsuits around, but there seems to be some sort of communication gap here...

gjm11 16y ago
What's the betting that the terms of that "free" licence involve some sort of admission of RunwayFinder's guilt, or of the validity of FlightPrep's patent?
- tif 16y ago
  Doesn't the simple act of accepting a (free or otherwise) license from someone imply that that you accept their right to grant said license? Both parties I'm sure are aware of this; it's simply posturing on FlightPrep's part with the hope that RunwayFinder will be dumb enough to accept it and thereby lose in the long run.
  - kragen 16y ago
    No. The classic case of a license in common law is permission to enter someone's property. Consider this case: Me, opening the door to my apartment: Oh shit! There's a burglar in my living room! Burglar: I'm not a burglar! This is my apartment! I've owned it for ten years. Me: This isn't your apartment! It's my apartment! I bought it from Hugo López last year! Burglar: Hold on a second. As long as you don't lay your hands on me, I'll allow you to remain in this living room to discuss this with me, but López never actually owned this apartment. He rented it from me for a while, but I evicted him five years ago for not paying rent. It was a fraudulent sale. Me: Really? Shit. Listen, are you armed? Burglar: No. Does this catsuit look like it has space for a gun? [Holds up hands, turns 360°] Me: I guess not. I'm still calling the police. Burglar: Go ahead. Me: [pulls out cellphone and starts dialing] Now, the burglar has granted me a license to remain on what he claims is his property. He could still be a burglar hoping to fool me long enough to get away, or he could be telling the truth and be the legal owner of the place, or in fact he could be telling the truth but López might have become the legal owner of the place through adverse possession, but in none of these cases am I accepting his claim and ceding the property to him simply by remaining in my own living room, or by not bodily throwing him out.
    - cookiecaper 16y ago
      Are you a lawyer? Because it doesn't sound like the same standards would apply in your example and in a case of patent litigation.
      - kragen 16y ago
        I am not. Are you? Why do you think different standards would apply?
        cookiecaper 16y ago
        I'm not a lawyer either. I think different standards apply because there's a rather significant difference in the urgency between a dispute about an intruder in one's living quarters and a patent or intellectual property lawsuit. It looks like RunwayFinder is not even trying to dispute the case and is giving up pre-emptively because they don't have the funds to fight the case. Accepting a temporary license to postpone the lawsuit does not sound smart to me, it sounds like a ploy to allow RunwayFinder to stay online longer while FlightPrep continues to pursue licensing agreements (which the owner has no ability to pay) or legal allegations that will result in additional damages as well as an admission of the validity of the patent. But I guess now we'll just have to wait for someone who knows what they're talking about to correct one or both of us. :)
    - tif 16y ago
      But if RunwayFinder intends to attack the validity of the patent by claiming obviousness or something similar, I see the analogy as more like: me: This was no-one's apartment when I got here. There are thousands like it, in fact an infinite supply. Get your own. burglar: Well, we'll work that out in court. In fact I own all of them. me: No, it was public land and I just built my apartment here. burglar: Well, how about you sign this lease. Just put your John Hancock here, and I won't give you any trouble about staying here. I won't even charge you any rent this month. With the above dialog, doesn't the signing of the lease imply an acceptance of the burglars ownership of not only this apartment but all of these apartments? I am not a lawyer, obviously, just someone who likes analogies.
- nphase 16y ago
  From FlightPrep's blog [1]: In spite of the foregoing, FlightPrep stands by its offer to grant a free-license to RunwayFinder to operate its website during this negotiation phase of our legal dispute. We are not asking RunwayFinder to shut down and in-fact are offering them a temporary free-pass at our technology in hopes that this gesture of goodwill will better enable both RunwayFinder and FlightPrep to constructively work toward a mutually beneficial long-term solution. Constructively work toward a mutually beneficial long-term solution, eh? With patent enforcement? Sounds more like strong-arming RunwayFinder into a deal they wouldn't otherwise take to me. [1] http://blog.flightprep.com/2010/12/regarding-runwayfinder-shutting-down.html http://blog.flightprep.com/2010/12/regarding-runwayfinder-sh...
jcromartie 16y ago
> a temporary free-pass at our technology This makes me so angry... I just don't know how that thought can be honestly held in a sane mind.
cvos 16y ago
You are 1 day late, you missed this simple solution to retain your rights http://hustlebear.com/2010/12/14/how-to-handle-lawyers-threatening-you/ http://hustlebear.com/2010/12/14/how-to-handle-lawyers-threa...

gjm11 16y ago

What's the betting that the terms of that "free" licence involve some sort of admission of RunwayFinder's guilt, or of the validity of FlightPrep's patent?

tif 16y ago
Doesn't the simple act of accepting a (free or otherwise) license from someone imply that that you accept their right to grant said license? Both parties I'm sure are aware of this; it's simply posturing on FlightPrep's part with the hope that RunwayFinder will be dumb enough to accept it and thereby lose in the long run.
- kragen 16y ago
  No. The classic case of a license in common law is permission to enter someone's property. Consider this case: Me, opening the door to my apartment: Oh shit! There's a burglar in my living room! Burglar: I'm not a burglar! This is my apartment! I've owned it for ten years. Me: This isn't your apartment! It's my apartment! I bought it from Hugo López last year! Burglar: Hold on a second. As long as you don't lay your hands on me, I'll allow you to remain in this living room to discuss this with me, but López never actually owned this apartment. He rented it from me for a while, but I evicted him five years ago for not paying rent. It was a fraudulent sale. Me: Really? Shit. Listen, are you armed? Burglar: No. Does this catsuit look like it has space for a gun? [Holds up hands, turns 360°] Me: I guess not. I'm still calling the police. Burglar: Go ahead. Me: [pulls out cellphone and starts dialing] Now, the burglar has granted me a license to remain on what he claims is his property. He could still be a burglar hoping to fool me long enough to get away, or he could be telling the truth and be the legal owner of the place, or in fact he could be telling the truth but López might have become the legal owner of the place through adverse possession, but in none of these cases am I accepting his claim and ceding the property to him simply by remaining in my own living room, or by not bodily throwing him out.
  - cookiecaper 16y ago
    Are you a lawyer? Because it doesn't sound like the same standards would apply in your example and in a case of patent litigation.
    - kragen 16y ago
      I am not. Are you? Why do you think different standards would apply?
      - cookiecaper 16y ago
        I'm not a lawyer either. I think different standards apply because there's a rather significant difference in the urgency between a dispute about an intruder in one's living quarters and a patent or intellectual property lawsuit. It looks like RunwayFinder is not even trying to dispute the case and is giving up pre-emptively because they don't have the funds to fight the case. Accepting a temporary license to postpone the lawsuit does not sound smart to me, it sounds like a ploy to allow RunwayFinder to stay online longer while FlightPrep continues to pursue licensing agreements (which the owner has no ability to pay) or legal allegations that will result in additional damages as well as an admission of the validity of the patent. But I guess now we'll just have to wait for someone who knows what they're talking about to correct one or both of us. :)
  - tif 16y ago
    But if RunwayFinder intends to attack the validity of the patent by claiming obviousness or something similar, I see the analogy as more like: me: This was no-one's apartment when I got here. There are thousands like it, in fact an infinite supply. Get your own. burglar: Well, we'll work that out in court. In fact I own all of them. me: No, it was public land and I just built my apartment here. burglar: Well, how about you sign this lease. Just put your John Hancock here, and I won't give you any trouble about staying here. I won't even charge you any rent this month. With the above dialog, doesn't the signing of the lease imply an acceptance of the burglars ownership of not only this apartment but all of these apartments? I am not a lawyer, obviously, just someone who likes analogies.
nphase 16y ago
From FlightPrep's blog [1]: In spite of the foregoing, FlightPrep stands by its offer to grant a free-license to RunwayFinder to operate its website during this negotiation phase of our legal dispute. We are not asking RunwayFinder to shut down and in-fact are offering them a temporary free-pass at our technology in hopes that this gesture of goodwill will better enable both RunwayFinder and FlightPrep to constructively work toward a mutually beneficial long-term solution. Constructively work toward a mutually beneficial long-term solution, eh? With patent enforcement? Sounds more like strong-arming RunwayFinder into a deal they wouldn't otherwise take to me. [1] http://blog.flightprep.com/2010/12/regarding-runwayfinder-shutting-down.html http://blog.flightprep.com/2010/12/regarding-runwayfinder-sh...

jcromartie 16y ago

> a temporary free-pass at our technology This makes me so angry... I just don't know how that thought can be honestly held in a sane mind.

cvos 16y ago

You are 1 day late, you missed this simple solution to retain your rights http://hustlebear.com/2010/12/14/how-to-handle-lawyers-threatening-you/ http://hustlebear.com/2010/12/14/how-to-handle-lawyers-threa...